comands for unit ?

[ghostmachine]

ive searched around and havnt found an answer to this
do you run comands for your units ?
im not sure if theres a point in some units spending the extra on comands
ie zombies
just started with VC


sorry if this has been covered somewere but i searched and didnt find it
should of been posted in The Teachings of Abhorash

 

[Count Lasombra]

The short answer is,no.Command upgrades are optional,but they can have their benefits.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Full command in every unit you'll throw into close combat, only musician for the rest (like support units and archers). That's how I do in my armies. At least Standard bearer and musician in every combat unit, champion in every unit who will be joined by a character.

I'd definitely take command on zombies for a number of reasons:

*Zombies die horrible fast, a standard bearer makes you loose one less model every round you crumble
*Standard Bearers provide a fortitude point in the blood and glory scenario
*A musician makes your zombies tacticool (being able to swift reformerv: )
*A Musician will make your zombies not lose any models in the extremely unlikely event of a drawn combat :lol:

 

[ghostmachine]

i understand what the comands do just not played since 6th edition
i just dont know if there worth the expence with the VC
i allways ran full comands in 6th but looking at the stat line im just not sure if it would be better to have extra troops insteed

 

[Sanai]

I don't think zombies can take musicians or champions, just standard bearers.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

[mod] Thread Moved [/mod]

 

[Burnanation]

I would agree with Fallen Angles' guidelines, but I think that zombies get wiped out way to fast to justify the banner. I personally wouldn't want cough up the extra victory points for the banner in a unit that's main function is to die.

 

[Ghurt]

Often its worth to include a champ just to be able to challenge a fearsome enemy character and let him overkill the champ. That way you will only lose 1 model and will have more people standing when the dust have settled. Say the hero does 4 wounds on the champ. That will be 1 model + 4 in CR = five dead. If you dont challenge then it would be 4 figures + 4 from CR = 8 dead.

Also more often then you think the opponent forgets to nominate the champ as a reciever of an attack. That way you will fight back with an additional attack.

Or in odd situations where you clip dangerous units you can move your champ to minimise the number of enemy attacks that can hit the unit and that way save a few from dying from unstable.
There is many ways to use a champ that is not the obvious of taking challenges from dangerous characters that your own vampires dont want to fight.
Also our champs can be raised which is a good thing.

Also I would really like to be able to give my ghoul units a muso and standard bearer now with the swift reform and fortitude points. I almost always take full command on my units if they are fighting inf. Not so often on ranged units, fast cav, skirmishers and such.

 

[Bravo_10]

I always always always run Full Command on Skeletons and Grave Guard. I even take the Crypt Ghast for Ghouls. However, I don't typically invest in the other kinds of champions unless I am planning on putting a character in the unit. Then it's useful to take challenges, but I just don't find that it's worth it for something like a Skeleton unit, which in my army is really going to be a defensive block anyway.

With regards to Zombies, I think giving them a Standard + Musician is like giving free points away to the enemy (and yes, there is such a thing as a Zombie musician. I think it's holding a tambourine or something). My point is, Zombies are inevitably going to get wiped out by the enemy unless you put a lot of effort into IoN spamming, and even then they're not guaranteed to survive. There's no point in allowing your opponents to capture a standard for such little effort. You're just giving away 25 VP.

 

[Dklyn]

I don't have my army book, but I'm 90% sure Sanai is right that zombies can only be upgraded with a standard bearer. Even if there's a model for muscians, there's no option to upgrade a zombie into one (see army book entry).
Although, like everyone else here, I wouldn't give them a standard. I wouldn't even pay the points for zombies, but that's personal

Even if zombies could be upgraded to a champion, a hero can't join them so they wouldn't be protecting anyone anyways.

 

[gkgnight]

I don't have my army book, but I'm 90% sure Sanai is right that zombies can only be upgraded with a standard bearer. Even if there's a model for muscians, there's no option to upgrade a zombie into one (see army book entry).
Although, like everyone else here, I wouldn't give them a standard. I wouldn't even pay the points for zombies, but that's personal

Even if zombies could be upgraded to a champion, a hero can't join them so they wouldn't be protecting anyone anyways.

VC rulebook page 51:

Zombies can take a musicain for 4 points and a standard for 8

Thoghu i'm thinking that you meant to say champion in your post instead of musician.

 

[Vreith]

can you get musician/ standard through raise dead? or just like the raise dead says "4+d3 Zombies" as it is not cast as IoN & therefore does not get command?

 

[Bravo_10]

No, you can't get a Standard, simply because it would have to say that you could. Plus, it really wouldn't be a good idea, as your freshly made Zombie units usually get slaughtered pretty quickly, and you would just be giving away free VP for the captured standard, along with the 50 your opponent gains just for destroying it.

 

[Arthander]

personally the full command is the best option in my opinon. I take it every chance i get. Ghouls, GG Zombies, or skellies, they all get as much as i can give them. If i'm trying to save a few points i'll cut back on a musician or (rarely) a champion. Since the champion can no longer issue challenges and only except them, he is less important than before. but the +1 attack is hard to over look.

so my thoughts are take them

 

[Bravo_10]

That depends though...some champions are actually more expensive than just buying another Rank and File trooper (i.e. the Doom Wolf). And the 1 extra attack that the Blood Knights' Kastellan gets is hardly worth its points simply because of how many attacks a regular Blood Knight already has.

 

[Arthander]

but with the kastellan your getting the ability to issue challenges and the balfire spike is very nice on him (or any other 25pt weapon).
Issueing challenges with the kastellan also give you the ability to pick up the extra 25 victory points for haveing a unit champion kill a hero.

 

[ghostmachine]

many thanks to all for your input
after reading everything im gonna run full comands just leave those zombies plain

 

[Arthander]

hm.. if i start zombies, i normally give the standerd since you'll need combat res anyway you can get it. unless you don't intend on adding to the unit and just mark them up as fodder.