Confusion with my List

[logan054]

Well my mate has just started lizardmen however for a twist, this isn't a thread about how to power up my list, this is a list to figure out if my list needs toning down slightly to make the game more interesting.

First off is his list at 2k (Well roughly)

Slaan
BSB
(sometimes razor standard)
Focus ruination
Becalming Cogitation
lore of life

Scar-Vet
Halberd
Armour of fortune
Venom of the Firefly Frog

Skin Priest
lvl2
Lore of Heavens
Dispel scroll

40 Temple Guard
Fullcommand

40 Saurus Warriors
Fullcommand
spears

2 x 10/12 skins with blowpipes

2 salamanders in one pack



Here is my List


Lord

Countess Verona Jinette
Vampire Lord
- lvl 4 sorcerer
- Lore of Vampires
- Sword of Might (normally I have a ogre blade and no stone)
- Power Stone
- Armour of Destiny
- Red Fury
- Quick Blood
Total 495pts


Heroes

Lady Aleera Jinette
Manfred the Acolyte
Total 200pts

Troops

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

5 Direwolves
Total 40pts

40 Skeleton Warriors
- Fullcommand
- Banner of eternal flame
Total 240pts

Crazed Villagers
28 Ghouls
Total 280pts


Special

Cursed Teutogen Guard
27 Gave Guard
- Fullcommand
- Great weapons
- Banner of Barrows
Total 404pts


Rare

6 Wraiths
Total 300pts


The main complaints seem to be about my blender lord and wraiths, I've tried it without a blender lord, the list is fine until you play something like saurus, chaos warriors, savage orc big uns.

So what do you guys think? has he really got anything to grumble about?

 

[bigbadbat]

If your friend just started Lizzies, the worst thing I think you could do is dumb down your list. You've got a tough list Logan,but nothing cheesy. Let him figure out how to build and run his army.
He'll learn more losing his first ten games, than having you lay down so his ego doesn't get bruised. His list needs help anyways.
Or you could switch lists with him...

 

[Fluffytemplar]

If he's complaining to you about bringing a blender lord, tell him not to bring his Slann then. There's definitely nothing cheesy or overpowered in your list so don't feel bad. Besides, what Slann can't deal with wraiths?

I agree your friend needs to lose a lot before he learns how to use his army, we all did.

Since you were able to post his list, does he change it much? If not, have him experiment with different units. From what I see if he simply changed to lore of light he could potentially ruin your day real fast!

 

[Grish]

I would just suggest teaching him as you go. Or, if he's just learning, keep the units simple and add something new each game. Start with just big blocks and mash. Then add in chaff and try to separate his army. If that works, ask him to think about it and try to figure out a way around it. Start real simple, add something new each game, and have a lot of discussion through the game to get him up to speed faster.

Or, don't even play full games. Just setup scenarios or situations and show him this and that, different tactics. I would really try to get someone up to speed as quickly as possible rather than beating them over and over. Setting up and playing a big game with a lot of moving parts and losing early because of a movement mistake sucks; I would have 1k games to start, keep it simple, and ramp up the complexity and point costs from there.

 

[logan054]

His list has only changed once, when he played my mono-khorne warrior list, he added in the razor standard on his temple guard, I think he was annoyed because I used my skullcrushers + lord went against the other unit instead while my chosen pined his temple guard in place until I was ready to deal with it. But generally no, I have said to him that he really needs lore master.

From what his told me, the focus of the list is about stopping the opponents magic phase, buffing his units and then crushing them in combat. I don't play lizardmen so what advise I can give him is limted sadly, if you guys have some suggestions for his list it would be great (however I wont pass any information on about cupped hands ).

He goes in GW and does fine, a few people have made some complaints about his temple guard being insane, of course I am the only person he users dwellers against as well (that said, he was annoyed with how many strength tests my ghouls passed last game).


This is my Chaos list I am using at the moment:


Lords

Kormak, High Executioner of Khorne
Chaos Lord
- Mark of Khorne
- Juggernaut of Khorne
- Sword if Might
- Charmed shield
- Talisman of Preservation
- Helm of Many Eyes
Total 370pts


Heroes

Skargrim, Priest of Blood
Chaos Sorcerer
- lvl1 sorcerer
- lore of Death
- Dispel Scroll
- Enchanted Shield
- 3rd Eye of Tzeentch
Total 150pts


Core

5 Marauder Horsemen
- Flails
- Musician
Total 81pts

5 Marauder Horsemen
- Flails
- Musician
Total 81pts

17 Chaos Warriors
- Mark of Khorne
- Fullcommand
- Halberds
- Banner of Eternal Flame
Total 359pts


Special

18 Chosen
- Mark of Khorne
- Fullcommand
- Shields
- Wailing Banner
- Favor of the gods
Total 482pts


Rare

5 Skullcrushers
- Musician
- Standard
- Standard of Discipline
Total 345pts

Warshrine
Total 130ps

He would rather play my VC than this, but it gives you a idea of the types of lists he is having trouble with. I do wonder if part of the problem is he has been playing in GW to much on 4x4 boards and is a little use to just walking forward?

 

[The Sun King]

His list is very subpar I think, so he just need to head over to lustria.com and see how people build their lists... oh yeah, and with time he'll figure it all out. Enjoy your days in the sun Logan... eh wait, you're a vamp, don't go into the sun.

 

[logan054]

I thinks thats the wrong link :tongue:

Vampire love the sun, never watched blade?

I think hes in a mood, I haven't heard from him in a week, oh dear...

 

[The Sun King]

It's funny you say that Logan, one of my very good friends have moodswings when it comes to WH as well - he just started a TK army and he is soooo disappointed - and it breaks my heart. Why can't everybody just win?

 

[logan054]

I think many people can get annoyed when the dice go against them, I tend to groan a bit when I remove half my unit of skeletons because of his damn salies! after the game I continue to drink my beer and not care lol. He quit against my chaos because I made to many wardsaves with my Khorne chosen, I think he was disappointed that I had a unit that didn't get rolled over by his temple guard (unlike when he goes into GW).

So the general advise I got from warseer was "take lore of light", the vet is pointless, he needs some more kick to his list.... Lore of light vs VC.... oh dear, might have to drop my wraiths

 

[The Sun King]

You can't change that he's being unsportsmanlike, so I wouldn't give him too much advice. Apparently he needs to adjust his attitude more than his list.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Same thing happens to my brother in law. he loves his TK. But....well you know how that goes sunny.

 

[logan054]

I think the thing I don't get is while he moans about the blender lord and wraiths, in the same breathe he will say they are the only units that actually worry him in the whole army...

 

[The Sun King]

BTW. if he wants to run a Scar Vet he should throw him on a coldone, give him Dawnstone and a wardsave and then throw him in with the Temple Guard.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Or throw the scar on a carnisaur. Those things are scary.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Split the salamanders
drop the skink to lvl 1 with cube
add in two mounted scar vets one with charmed shield and the other with the 2+ ward against first wound.
drop the champ on the saraus
give the Slaan loremaster or a different lore.

These few changes will give him that truely disgusting lizards list and then he should enjoy stomping you good and propper.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Johnny have you been talking to my brother in law. that's like exactly what he runs.

Oh, and throw cupped hands on the slann.

 

[eggsPR]

Replace the temple guard with Saurus warriors, they're just as good and cost less. Use the savings for as many skirmish skinks as possible. 2 units of terradonz are great as well. The best Lizard players are masters of the double flee. If he doesn't know what that means, then that's rule #1 for lizzies.

If he's playing Lizards right your skull crushers should never see combat, and it they did they MAY kill a 60 point skink unit and then overrun into A) impassible terrain B) off the board or C) right in front of his Saurus block for a flank charge.

 

[Bane]

40 TG is pretty nasty. Sounds like he just doesn't understand his army yet. I have seen similar lists do very well. But yeah, that scar vet isn't doing anything for his list, really. 40 Saurus are nasty by themselves. They don't need a hero.

 

[The Sun King]

@ Matt: I disagree, the Carnosaur is way too easy to kill and suddenly you have an Oldblood on foot..

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Also it means you do not have a Slaan.... And Slaan are the best non special character wizard in the entire game

 

[The Sun King]

Pretty solid point as well Although a Non-Slann list would be nice if you could build it competetively. That's my main beef with Lizardmen, they are very set in their ways when it comes to armylists.

 

[logan054]

Thanks for the input, however I haven't heard from the guy in over a week! oh dear, I think he's in a real huff.

@ Johnny - I'm not sure I see the point in the mounted scar vets without any cold ones (but I did buy him a one of foot for his Bday, I imagine he will want to continue using it), we don't generally tailor our lists, aside that I shall pass that onto him if he gets out of his mood.

@ EGGSPR - I doubt he will replace the temple guard with saurus, keep in mind I was looking for advice to improve his list so it was on more of a equal footing. Since I changed my lists I have been stomping the guy, it isn't fun for either of us, changing it so he then stomps me isn't going to make the game more enjoyable for either us.

@ COUNT MATTHEWZILLA - cupped hands.... yes, thats going to make the games more fun! You can see my lists are not tournament builds!

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Mounted Scar vets are one of the more competitive things in the lizards book. Insane armor save and good combat stat makes them able to solo into most units and lock them down most of the game.

 

[Seneschal]

People use 2 mounted scar vets in a saurus unit with full command and a slann. The heroes and command push the frog to the second rank.

 

[logan054]

For me personally, I would be concerned about them getting snipped before they charged out of a unit, as I said, I'm not sure if he will want to drop the infantry based one (limited funds and such), depends what he got of ebay.