Coven throne or mortis engine?

[Sception]

I'm definitely picking up the Mortis Engine - it's more my style, and seems more useful in the game, both for the effects themselves and for the fact that it isn't putting a big bullseye on your lord.

Although, the inspiring presence point is an interesting one. Thematically, though, it's hard for me to see putting a hero on the big floaty regal throne thing while my lord huffs it through the mud with the infantry, especially if I'm going for a lahmian theme.

 

[Wargamer]

I'm definitely picking up the Mortis Engine - it's more my style, and seems more useful in the game, both for the effects themselves and for the fact that it isn't putting a big bullseye on your lord.

Although, the inspiring presence point is an interesting one. Thematically, though, it's hard for me to see putting a hero on the big floaty regal throne thing while my lord huffs it through the mud with the infantry, especially if I'm going for a lahmian theme.

Have the army led by a Master Necromancer. After all, a Lahmian can have anyone as a puppet .

 

[VonDookie]

I played OK. I was really nervous about him bringing the hellheart. (all enemy wizards within d6x5" makes a automatic miscast) This item could become very nasty very quickly...

You hit the nail on the head. My friend who plays OK brought this up the other evening during pre-game setup. He says that there's quite a bit of discussion surrounding this combination on some other forum he frequents. I think that if the hellheart/engine catastrophe isn't fixed in a FAQ, then the tome upgrade will be pretty much worthless against OK armies - if not a huge liability. I mean, you'll pretty much never want to keep your lord anywhere near that thing for fear of him going bye-bye very quickly.

As for the throne vs. engine - each have their ups and downs. Neither have great movement, but then again, either can move through anything, which is a trade off.

I haven't used the throne yet, because I've been focused on 2k games and haven't wanted to sack my hero/lord choices to take a mount - I'm more of a "diversify your army's numbers" type player; the throne seems very all or nothing at this points level - even with a hero riding it.

Other than the hellheart scandal though, the tome is a must take on an engine, and an engine is a must take in any list that wants to compete magically. I've found that it works amazingly well against my lizardmen buddy. It's so gratifying to watch his slann, who's 7-die casting stuff left and right sweat in his own defensive magic phase when my lvl 4 is casting with huge bonuses himself - especially paired up with the periapt, btw - get your magic off to a huge start.

 

[Sception]

Against ogres, you just have to deploy such that your lord isn't in range of the tome. Sure, you lose the tome bonus for your general, but you can still take advantage of the regen aura, scream attacks, and impact hits, and your lesser casters can still use the tome, since it's not as big a deal if they pop. Sure, it makes deployment a bit awkward, but it doesn't render the engine useless.

 

[VonDookie]

Against ogres, you just have to deploy such that your lord isn't in range of the tome. Sure, you lose the tome bonus for your general, but you can still take advantage of the regen aura, scream attacks, and impact hits, and your lesser casters can still use the tome, since it's not as big a deal if they pop. Sure, it makes deployment a bit awkward, but it doesn't render the engine useless.

No, I agree - the engine awesome for the other things that it brings into the fray. I've only kept my engine in the back of my ranks so far, typically for the casting bonus, and the aura. I've found that the engine's aura eats up scouts that like to slide in behind you and shoot your arse, rather nicely as it gains strength. I haven't been successful in positioning the engine in a way as yet to take advantage of the howl yet - being that it's only got 8" of range, and so far I've tried using it as a babysitter behind my big blocks/bunkers - but i'm sure that i'll find an opportunity at some point.

My point was that if the hellheart pops, it's likely that your level 1's and 2's will pop too... if that happens, then future magic phases will really lean on your lord to keep your underlings alive - depending on your army setup. Since we really rely a lot on magic to keep things moving along smoothly (all of our augments and army synergy rely on solid magic) - our lord would be hard pressed to resume the role that the lowbie casters were fulfilling.

I was just saying that it's such a shame to be brought down so hard by such a cheap item. I for one hope that it gets somehow faq'd.

 

[maxtoreador]

I played OK. I was really nervous about him bringing the hellheart. (all enemy wizards within d6x5" makes a automatic miscast) This item could become very nasty very quickly...

You hit the nail on the head. My friend who plays OK brought this up the other evening during pre-game setup. He says that there's quite a bit of discussion surrounding this combination on some other forum he frequents. I think that if the hellheart/engine catastrophe isn't fixed in a FAQ, then the tome upgrade will be pretty much worthless against OK armies - if not a huge liability. I mean, you'll pretty much never want to keep your lord anywhere near that thing for fear of him going bye-bye very quickly.

As for the throne vs. engine - each have their ups and downs. Neither have great movement, but then again, either can move through anything, which is a trade off.

I haven't used the throne yet, because I've been focused on 2k games and haven't wanted to sack my hero/lord choices to take a mount - I'm more of a "diversify your army's numbers" type player; the throne seems very all or nothing at this points level - even with a hero riding it.

Other than the hellheart scandal though, the tome is a must take on an engine, and an engine is a must take in any list that wants to compete magically. I've found that it works amazingly well against my lizardmen buddy. It's so gratifying to watch his slann, who's 7-die casting stuff left and right sweat in his own defensive magic phase when my lvl 4 is casting with huge bonuses himself - especially paired up with the periapt, btw - get your magic off to a huge start.

Yeah Heallheart is scary but the Lizzies have some of their own that are pretty frightening near our Mortis. Surprised you haven't seen them if you play against Lizardmen.

BTW watch that 7-die casting, if he has 12 in the pool he cannot use it till he's at 11 or below(AKA till after his first cast.)

 

[Kuwanger23]

My vote is Mortis engine. However the Coven throne looks so damn cool. I am certainly going to build one and take it out every now and then with a hero lv vamp on it. I am purchasing two mortis engines. Zombies with +5 regen and skellies with +5, +6, 5+ make for good tar pits me thinks. Also helps you win combat a lot. And the +2 casting on a lv 4 gives you +6 to cast and if you have the extra d3 vampiric power that makes it really hard to dispell and still be able to stop the rest of the magic phase. I am thinking a hero with +4+D3 throwing 3 dice getting a result of 17 for a 12" Invocation. And the Lord throwing 2D6+6 for the same. 5 dice and I bet your opponent will let it go off because he certainly doesn't want all your other shenanigans going off and bounds.

 

[Sception]

Have the army led by a Master Necromancer. After all, a Lahmian can have anyone as a puppet .

The problem with this is that the MN's only leadership eight, which isn't much better then the hero level vamp's leadership seven. No, imo if you're taking the Coven Throne, then you want a Vampire Lord in there somewhere, whether it's on the throne or somewhere nearby, so you can battle of wills on the full leadership ten.

 

[Ghormenghast]

Mortis Engine was my MVP. I played my first fight with the Mortis Engine yesterday against Chaos.

I upgraded it with the tome and had Heinrich Kemmler and a Lv. 2 Necro in it's 6" bubble.
I only needed to roll 2 dice to get my spells off (minimal miscast chance), and my opponent had his hands full trying to dispel Kemmler's 6+ to casting.
In later turns (5 & 6) the Engines AOE effect and the Banshee howls did a ton of damage to his last unit of Warriors, killing them off.

My new outlook; Mortis Engine, don't leave home without it.

 

[meowser]

Never thought about the 18" bubble from coven throne... Makes taking your general on one an option at least, but zombie dragon is a good (and marchable) choice as well

 

[Wargamer]

Remember guys, even in a Large Target mount, your March bubble is still 12". It isn't tied to the Inspiring Presence.

 

[Gokamok]

SLIGHT MATHHAMMER WARNING, SKIP THIS POST IF YOU DON*T LIKE THAT

Regarding the Tome upgrade for the Mortis Engine, I very much agree that it's awesome for 2-dice casting, (6" IoN, basic danse, vigour, gaze and raise) but I think that it seriously limits our ability to cast the boosted spell versions; "bubble" Vanhel's fails 28% of the time on 2 dice with +6 to cast, which leads to you probably wanting to cast with 3 dice in order to not risk failing the spell, which again increases the risk of a rather hefty miscast. Same goes for Curse of Years. Bubble Vigour is only 50% to cast on 3 dice with +6, so you'd likely want to use 4 dice (which you'd also use with "only" +4 to cast) which in my opinion pretty much renders the spell useless while within 12" of the Mortis Engine, since there's no way my lvl 4 general is chucking 4 dice at anything with the risk of 2 rolls on the miscast table. (Unless I'm desperate, of course!)

The point of this rant is that I generally don't feel that the +2 from the Tome fits very well with the casting values of quite a few spells when they're cast by a lvl 4. I think that the main strength of the Tome lies in using multiple low level casters, where the consequences of blowing up from the miscast aren't as dire as if it's the general, and where the Tome gives you pretty much the same offensive magical capabilities as a lvl 4 caster.

/rant over

 

[Crazeh]

Mortis engine for sure. I have mine sitting on my desk in sub-assemblies ready for primer and paint. It's such a beautiful model, and definitely my preferred variant aesthetically. A joy to put together too. Couple of fiddly bits regarding the spirit horde but overall A+ to GW on this one.

 

[Kuwanger23]

I don't know my lv 4 getting to throw 2 dice at a hellish vigor 12" and getting it off on a 6+ really makes my opponents dice run out fast. It is certainly risky but you can minimize that by planning out your magic phase accordingly depending on what spells you rolled. Also CoY is cast on a 12+. you could easily also thrwo 2 dice at that. I think you have to ride the line and play it strong and throw less dice unit your opponent runs out of dispel dice if you are taking a Mortis engine. Too bad it doesn't work or dispel too! lol. (jk)....(kinda)...:devil2:

 

[anhktepot]

Used the Mortis Engine yesterday against an Ogre Kingdoms army, and it really won me the game. It charged in to help my GG and Strigoi Lord and the Banshee Scream and the impact damage broke his 2 units including his general! Well that and my Terrorgheist decimating his Mournfang cavalry hehe.