Dark Acolyte - what does it actually do?

[ComicBookGuy]

Just wondering as I don't actually get it from the description...

It says: "Adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts IoN" - what use does that convey if he only gets the benefit after he cast the damn spell in the first place? If he gets D3 extra to the casting roll after the spell was successful?

correct me if I'm wrong, but IoN resurrects people = to D6 + Caster level yes? So really I see no point in taking it - unless I'm mistaken of course...

Please help me here...

 

[VonDookie]

Just wondering as I don't actually get it from the description...

It says: "Adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts IoN" - what use does that convey if he only gets the benefit after he cast the damn spell in the first place? If he gets D3 extra to the casting roll after the spell was successful?

correct me if I'm wrong, but IoN resurrects people = to D6 + Caster level yes? So really I see no point in taking it - unless I'm mistaken of course...

Please help me here...

I follow the school of thought offered by older posts on this subject that the ability effectively makes it more difficult for your opponent to dispel. You still have to make a successful casting attempt... But once you do, you're adding a little extra to the casting total for your opponent to dispel - perhaps drawing out that dispel scroll, or additional dispel dice.

 

[ComicBookGuy]

Just wondering as I don't actually get it from the description...

It says: "Adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts IoN" - what use does that convey if he only gets the benefit after he cast the damn spell in the first place? If he gets D3 extra to the casting roll after the spell was successful?

correct me if I'm wrong, but IoN resurrects people = to D6 + Caster level yes? So really I see no point in taking it - unless I'm mistaken of course...

Please help me here...

I follow the school of thought offered by older posts on this subject that the ability effectively makes it more difficult for your opponent to dispel. You still have to make a successful casting attempt... But once you do, you're adding a little extra to the casting total for your opponent to dispel - perhaps drawing out that dispel scroll, or additional dispel dice.

:frown: Really?... then I won't take it... While I can see the potential for some (marginal) use, I think my Vampire would benefit more from stuff like Quick-blood, red fury etc...

Cheers

 

[Zhatan]

I wait for the FAQ on this one. As worded in the book it does nothing so I guess that is not the way it is intended but it is impossible to know what the intent of the writer was.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

The FAQ will help as right now it does nothing :lol:

 

[Sception]

Invocation's a pretty key spell, so if it works as expected then it's actually rather tempting on ghoul kings and hero vamps, where it makes their invocations as hard to resist on average as those of a lord level wizard. It can add a lot to the "multiple low level casters backed up with a mortis engine" strategy for the magic phase. I also prefer melee upgrades for vampires, but I still see it as a legitimate option. There are other ways to get re-rolls to hit, after all (corpse cart, dance, etc), and not every vamp wants to spend 50 points on red fury.

Still, we're waiting on an FAQ for it to do anything at all, and they could easily come up with some arbitrary ruling (add it to any casting attempt, add it to the number of wounds restored, add it to the caster level when casting the spell, etc) that might make it far more interesting than we're expecting. Or they might leave it completely useless, who knows.

 

[walgis]

Well i always play it as +d3 to the casting total. if you have one of it its not a big deal but i play 2-3 vamps with it and its great

 

[Raizi]

When you get IoN off, you add +d3 to the casting. It does not help you if you don't get the spell off. I think it helps lower level casters a bit, making their spells stronger, but there's a lot more to be had with 25 points.

What's this talk about it needing a FAQ or it doing nothing? IMO the wording is crystal clear.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

"The Vampire adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts ION"

Please note the highlighted work. Successfully means that it was not dispelled thus it is useless :slapface:

 

[Raizi]

"The Vampire adds D3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts ION"

Please note the highlighted work. Successfully means that it was not dispelled thus it is useless :slapface:

That's just unnecessary bull*#%t! Had to read the section about Magic again from the BRB. The geniuses had indeed worded it like that. The spell is cast or not cast before any dispel attempts. It is only worded as being succesfully cast after the dispel attempt have failed or none have been made. :slapface:

Sometimes I just want to punch them in the brain and stab myself in the eye.

 

[Gokamok]

I guess it's fair to assume that the intent is to add d3 to the value that your opponent needs to beat in order to dispel. Seems kinda nice on a lvl 4 with SCotN; would make for a spell you can cast on 2 dice and usually force your opponent to spend 3-4 dice dispelling

 

[Chaos_Born]

I was in the same boat as Raizi, I didn't realise the moronic wording

:swear:

Well as Gokamok says, I think we shall just have to assume that they meant +d3 when others want to dispel

 

[Hflord]

Hmmm, was posting my response to this elsewhere...

This isn't the coolest ability for 25 points imo no matter the outcome...

Everyone knows that this adds d3 to IoN after the cast, before the dispel. Some people like to knit pick. The evidence is in the casting section. It says the spell is cast if you meet or beat the casting roll. This is synonymous with successful.

Since successful is not a keyword or title or ability (like the difference between "what is your characters Strength?" and "what is your characters strengths?"...one is generic (like successful), one is specific (capitalized even). Anyhow....

The whole idea of the ability is understood. The ability obviously does something and it's silly to claim otherwise until someone force feeds you legal jargon to understand a rule in an FAQ.

That said, if you've a lower lvl caster (1 or 2) it is an ok ability. However, I've never had enough success with it to pay its points out.

 

[Raizi]

Everyone knows that...

Go into a tournament, they said. It will be fun, they said.

I partly agree with you on this. I will continue to play the ability as you mentioned as that is my interpetation of the rule. But I play solely casual games, where coming to terms about a rule with an opponent is significantly easier.

But if you enter a tournament and someone raises an issue over this, I believe there would be trouble.

 

[tinfish]

I often wonder if they actually meant "extra D3 wounds" per casting.

And why not, they obviously did not mean what they wrote either

Dark Acolyte! This does not work, 25 points plx, thx!

 

[Johnny-Crass]

RAI go only as far as friendly games IMO

 

[Hflord]

I still don't understand confusion on this. It seems people are more pissed off that GW didn't work it like a lawyer so they will take it out on others (or their own list). It's silly.

"The Vampire adds d3 to the casting total whenever he successfully casts IoN."

I understand that page 36 uses the word "successfully". Stop getting hung up on that. That is a part of speech, not a rule binding term. They could have said, or we could even say, "auspiciously, flourishingly, fortuitously, fortunately, opportunely, profitably, propitiously, prosperously, strongly, swimmingly, thrivingly, triumphantly, victoriously, well"....it is NOT a keyword.

As I put on another thread:
Roll dice, if you equal or exceed the casting value, you add another d3 to it. It's now harder to dispel. Then the dispel attempt.

To suddenly belt out that the ability does NOTHING is being petty at best. It obviously does SOMETHING. It seems, by the wording, that it "adds d3 to the casting total" not to the number of wounds restored, not to the casting value AFTER a dispel attempt, and maybe not a d3 to my nerd-rage meter, though that one seems most evident

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Successfully is a key term though. It crops up in every instance of the magic phase and thus is a key term. We all know what RAI is but RAI does not always cut it

 

[Hflord]

Successfully is a key term though. It crops up in every instance of the magic phase and thus is a key term. We all know what RAI is but RAI does not always cut it

Concession of understanding is good enough for me, and likewise, I understand the argument. I couldn't imagine someone actually attempting to argue the point over the table though.

Anyhow, about the same time I get a new wood elf book in my hand will be the same time as an FAQ I'm sure Here's to hoping.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I believe strongly in unclear rules being interpreted fairly but I try and look at rules debates from a TFG perspective.