dead zombie dragon?

[Randar]

I recently saw a Game where lord on a zombie dragon, mount died and they argued if it could be raised since it is part of the unit with the lord. Both sides had some interesting points I was busy working on my models at the time but This conversation peaked my interest!

So they argued its 1 unit and a single model together.
they both agreed if rider died he could not come back period and beast would just follow monster rules!

I jokingly said let the necro on foot run and jump on him if lord dies! Since he would be the new general! :tongue:

Anyway they argued for 10 min or so before the skaven player allowed the VC player to raise his dragon with 1 wound on it?

So what do you all think ?

I was a little confused at time logic seemed sound but once i got home i was like hmmmmmm grabbed rule book started to look stuff up lol! or

 

[Johnny-Crass]

No they are separate models that share a base.

 

[Randar]

Same unit tho ? Was argument and the VC player said no where in book says You can NOT raise a zombie dragon back under its lord.

I gave her a glance and found nope no rule and its not a hero its just a mount!

I was like can't be true so i been checking to see where you CAN NOT do this in the books what page?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

That argument does not work as it never says I can not reach over the table and strangle a Lizardman player, but guess what I still can not.

A monster and a rider are treated as two separate models that share a base per the monster and rider section of the BRB. You get VP's if you kill either one and thus they are not one unit.

 

[Randar]

That argument does not work as it never says I can not reach over the table and strangle a Lizardman player, but guess what I still can not.

A monster and a rider are treated as two separate models that share a base per the monster and rider section of the BRB. You get VP's if you kill either one and thus they are not one unit.

True I read that section In the BRB.
That is why I was Like the argument sounded Fishy.

They agreed They were a Unit As the Zombie dragon is a Lord unit upgrade and a mount. Anyway I just wanted to make sure I am not crazy because I was Like NO! This can not be lol! :slapface:

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Yah they are separate models. If this comes up again just point them to the BRB sections about characters mounting monsters.

 

[Randar]

Skaven player had the match in the bag so He prob said in his head sure kid whatever your so dead anyway! LOL thanks crass for the confirmation!~

 

[olethros]

A monster and a rider are treated as two separate models that share a base per the monster and rider section of the BRB. You get VP's if you kill either one and thus they are not one unit.

That is not true. "A character and his mount are treated as a single character model for all rules purposes" (BRB pg. 104) with some exceptions. In the case of ridden monsters these exceptions include for example hitting and wounding (BRB pg. 105). You also need to kill both the rider and the mount to get any victory points (BRB Errata pg. 10).

It is true however that you cannot bring back a slain zombie dragon because:
- IoN cannot be used to heal character and their mounts as per the "Resurrecting Fallen Warriors" rules (VC book pg. 26)
- Although the lore attribute could be used to give the zombie dragon back a wound, you still need to have a "living" (although wounded) dragon to do so.

That's my view on the subject, hope it helps.

 

[lost_shadow]

No! You cannot bring back a zombie dragon, it would be ridiclous to think so.

If this were the case.....on wait that would mean the lore of life could also 'ressurect' a dragon.....it would be insane and game breaking.

But yeah as olethros said, you cant use invocation on the actual dragon, you can only restore a wound with the lore attribute and not actually bring mounts back

 

[Yorga]

A monster and a rider are treated as two separate models that share a base per the monster and rider section of the BRB. You get VP's if you kill either one and thus they are not one unit.

That is not true. "A character and his mount are treated as a single character model for all rules purposes" (BRB pg. 104) with some exceptions. In the case of ridden monsters these exceptions include for example hitting and wounding (BRB pg. 105). You also need to kill both the rider and the mount to get any victory points (BRB Errata pg. 10).

Good thing I kept reading before I responded. I knew you had to kill both mount and character to get VPs. The Skaven make out pretty well here as it is easy to kill the plague priest on the furnace but damn hard to get that furnace destroyed. NO VPs for you! Step aside.