Dear Johnny

[Vengeance Crusader]

Dear Johnny...

What is your opinion on Mannfred (the hero version), ad how would you think is best to use him?

I am considering putting him on a barded nightmare, giving him a smallish retinue of black knights (like 5-6 with FC to keep the unit cheap) and then getting him stuck in combat with some chaff asap to start generating some PD/DD... Thoughts?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I dislike lore of vampires, so a model with loremaster of that lore is not something I find that atractive. Combine that with his lack of a wardsave and I think he is best left at home.

 

[bigbadbat]

Dear Johnny,

I've been tinkering with some Beastmen list creation and have a simple question.
Can the herdstone be destroyed by cannon fire? Im sure cracks call can take it down but am curious about those dubious cannonballs.

Also, If a night goblin shaman attempts to cast a spell using only 1 PD from his pool + 1 from magic mushroom rule if the PD result is a 1 or a 2 but the mushroom dice when added to the result exceeds the casting value, is the spell cast?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Herdstone is a piece of terrain and thus can not be destroyed by a cannonball.

As for the other I think so

 

[logan054]

I dislike lore of vampires, so a model with loremaster of that lore is not something I find that atractive. Combine that with his lack of a wardsave and I think he is best left at home.

Interesting, what exactly do you dislike like about it? I'm the exact opposite, I really like the lore and find having double of certain spells very useful, double curse years is very interesting. I Don't think its the only lore I would want in my army providing I have enough casters to viably do, extra movement, rerolls to hit, rerolls to wound can be a game changer (that said I don't very often use raise the dead or the big vortex of crapness). What I find more interesting about this is a comment I had seen of yours not needing ASF on characters because you have the bound version of dance.

With a lore master its possible to cast dance 3 times a phase.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I like lores with punch. The way I view buffs on most of our core and such is "you can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day it is still a turd". Vanhels is the only spell worth my time besides ION.

On the other hand we can take both Death and Shadow. Which are two of the best lores in the game, have better hexs and have way more punch.

If our lore had a decent damage spell I would like it way more. But Gaze is horrid for its casting cost, the vortex is only half decent against skaven and brets and Curse is not reliable.

 

[logan054]

When has VC ever been about the core? ghouls with rerolls to hit and poison can be very nasty, maybe its just me, I do seem to roll alot of 6's! rerolls to wound is also very nice with the right unit, it also very good on grave guard who are aiming for characters with T5, hell, rerolls to wound on a varghulf is very brutal if you have used to it assassinate a enemy hero/lord of even monster. Curse certainly isn't something you count on to deal damage, I think its main strength is throwing your opponents magic phase of balance and can certainly help limit his ability to cast big spells (being 3 dice down). I love curse of years, but again I so seem to roll a lot 6's, maybe if you had more faith you would roll as many 6's :tongue:

 

[rothgar13]

Curse of Years is indeed a high-variance spell, especially if you only get one shot at dealing damage (which is usually what happens). I'm not the biggest fan of the Vampire Lore myself, but in order to get Death or Shadows and use them well, you need a second Lord-level caster, which is a tough sell for a non-Ghoul King army.

 

[Mikael.K]

Alright, reports from the battlefield. Played vs the ogre líst with some modifications on my list. I´ll break it down:

Ghoul King 380 (-49)
Red Fury
DBG
Ogre Blade
Dispel Scroll

Never made it into combat due to all the purple suns hovering about, but the scroll was really useful. The swedish comp system punishes the scroll because its just THAT good. Sure, you can have it, but you have to pay for it .

Master Necro 245 (-29)
Lvl 4 Death
Talisman of Preservation

Death, what a fantastic and fun lore to use. Spirit leeched the firebelly to death in my turn 1. Had 2 suns floating around the board for some time. My opponent was a bit lucky with his I-rolls though. Still reaped its fair share.

Necromancer 70 (-5)
Ironcurse Icon

Necromancer 100 (-9)
Cursed Book

Cursed book was actually really useful, got the heavens hex twice on the maneaters. Nifty little item that.

Vampire 181 (-9)
Lvl 2 Shadow
Sword of Striking
Seed of Rebirth
Dragonhelm
HA+ Shield

Another very useful piece. Miasma worked great, never used the pendulum. Would have like enfeebling foe or the withering.

38 Ghouls 390 (-21)
Ghast

30 Skeletons 180 (-3)
Full Com

These were just a bunker for my necros and as you see, very good for my comp score .

6 Dire Wolves 48 (-2)

5 Dire Wolves 40 (-4)

Got two units of these at least, dart formation works wonders.

7 Crypt Horrors 276 (-21)
Champion

Killed some chaff, he was afraid of them I think. Took a charge from 4 maneaters that proceeded in causing a staggering 11 wounds on them! My regen saves sucked! Luckily my mortis engine came in to assist to kill off the maneaters.

3 Vargheists 138 (-8)

He was a bit afraid of these guys, got a lot of magic/shooting attention.

Terrorgheist 225 (-20)

Did his job in killing the ironblaster and succumbed to thunderbolts and lightning in my opponents last turn .

Mortis Engine 220 (-20)

Logan: look carefully, no tome on this puppy. Took it for regen/aura effect puposes. Catapulted into the midst of enemy lines in turn 6, he didnt dare to kill it Very useful support piece that sucked up a lot of shooting during the game.

Total: 2493

Comp: 10,0

There you have it! Not any optimal list in any way, but I really like the level 4 death, Level 2 shadow and cursed book. Will feature those in my coming lists. Will probably lose the terrorgheist and perhaps try a second unit of horrors or add more vargheists. A refreshing change to my otherwise go-to cavbus list.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Happy to help

 

[bigbadbat]

Nice! Perhaps give SGK or someone a Lil more frontline the cursed book next time.

 

[Mikael.K]

Yeah, really dont know where to put it. In a cavlist a hero vamp could have it and still have decent saves. On foot, I´m not sure.

 

[logan054]

Curse of Years is indeed a high-variance spell, especially if you only get one shot at dealing damage (which is usually what happens). I'm not the biggest fan of the Vampire Lore myself, but in order to get Death or Shadows and use them well, you need a second Lord-level caster, which is a tough sell for a non-Ghoul King army.

I dunno, I really like it, when I have the points for a 3rd wizard I tend to add in shadow, I like having the backup lore of vampire caster so I can at least go down fighting, as I said, I do roll a lot of 6's

I do like death and shadow, I prefer shadow with VC for the debuffs.

You could make a decent blender lord for under 400pts, maybe 360pts, you would have to take sword of might, it would still leave you with points to spend on the necro lord as well.

 

[bigbadbat]

Johnny,
Found the reference to the Magic Mushroom/ "not enough power" question in the O&G FAQ...

Q: Does the result rolled on the Magic Mushroom dice count when determining if the total rolled is 3+ for the Not Enough Power! rule?

A: No

Also, read in your plog that you were starting a Hordes force. How goes that? Lemme guess........Trollbloods?

Ima Circle guy, Khador for WM.

 

[Zombie_Whale]

Dear Johnny,

I have a couple of questions:

1) Teclis, lore of shadow... what the eff do we do?

and secondly,

2) Is it wise to run a blender lord (ogre blade, red fury, quick blood, lvl 4) with the lore of death? The issue is that I can't afford a master necromancer meaning that either a hero level vampire of necromancer will have to be the general. Is this a problem? Does a hero level necromancer just die far too easily?

Thanks!

 

[Mikael.K]

The lord would have to be your general since he has the highest leadership and is a magic user and so needs to pick the lore of the vampires. Hope that answers your second question at least . You can of course go with that build if you have dual vampire lords.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

For little T I would say Varghiests, Varghulfs and Wolf Darts. Keep in mind the way his Loremaster rule is written he does not know the sig spell and does not have the option of taking it as he never rolls for spells. So while shadow is a great lore it is garbage without Miasma

 

[Zombie_Whale]

This... I was not aware, although he was mainly throwing out mindrazors which basically spelt death for any unit in base contact.

and on the general thing, this was another thing I was not aware of... I thought you could simply get round that by not giving the vampire lord lore of the necromancer...

 

[Vectra]

vargheists that are deployed in a line (1 wide and 3-5 deep) can charge his unit, have at least one model survive to strike and murder teclis. he has T2 and no defense. several wolf darts (attacking with one each turn) could potentially do the same thing, though that is a bit iffy.

 

[bigbadbat]

Dear Johnny,

Been dabbling with the cloven ones. Gonna do a 1500 tomorrow night at lgc.
C&C much appreciated.
I'm not going for anything specific, really wanted Death on GBS, but would rather have 2 miasmas at this points level.

GBS
Lvl 4 shadow
Tali Pres
Jagged Dagger
Fencer's Blades
325

Wargor BSB
Gnarled Hide
HA
Enchanted Shield
Dawnstone
Biting Blade
169

Lvl 2 shadow Bray
Dispel
135

40 Gor
AHW
FC
345

20 Gor
AHW
FC
185

5 Raiders

5 Raiders

Tuskgor Chariot

Razorgor Chariot

Razorgor

1499

Just looking to acclimate myself to these guys.

Thanks!

 

[rothgar13]

If you're going to bring that many Gors, consider the Beast Banner with your BSB. I'd also suggest swapping the smaller Gor block and the Razorgor Chariot for Bestigors with the Standard of Discipline, because right now your army as currently constructed lacks punch and Leadership.

 

[TobiasRathein]

Yeah, the beast banner is absolutely worth it. Turns your gors into killing machines. 40 S4 attacks, that more than likely have a re-roll to hit? More, please.

 

[bigbadbat]

All valid points, its just sooooo hard at 1500 to get all the toys.
Suppose counting on getting mindrazor off at the perfect time is not a good strategy. Was hoping to pull opp d scroll with a pit then have "razored"gors wipe some face. Magic is fickle though!
I'll keep at it.
Thanks guys!

 

[TobiasRathein]

Rothgar is an excellent Beastmen player, and is easily the best Warhammer player I know. Trust me, that banner WILL give all of your opponents fits. Opposing players will have to throw everything they have at that unit. Either that or do their best to avoid fighting it, which isn't easy by any measure.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Yupp Rothgar taught me mostly everything I know when it comes to the horned ones. The 206 should be in this list.