Dear Johnny

[Johnny-Crass]

Wargor BSB with Beastbanner, heavy armor, shield and gnarled hide. He costs 206 points and is the best build for a BSB we have. He goes with the Gor horde

 

[Lich Lord]

Hey Johnny,

in a few weeks i will have a local tournament fielding 1200 points vampire counts. Im not allowed to bring in lords, ethereal stuff (just 1 banshee OR 1 cairn wraith), the black coach, units with more than 35 modells, specials and rare just 1 time, core units jus 2 times or great targets.

My head is aching by thinking of how to beat my foes butts, but there is no list coming up to my mind. Not even an idea! :mad2:

The only crap i wrote together was this:

0 Lord
3 Heroes: 299 Pts. 24.9%
5 Core Units: 319 Pts. 26.5%
2 Elite Units: 407 Pts. 33.9%
1 Rare Unit: 175 Pts. 14.5%

*************** 3 Heroes ***************

Vampire, General
+ Heavy Armour
+ Talisman of Endurance, Enchanted Shield
+ Quickblood
+ Lore of Vampires
- - - > 174 Points

Necromancer
+ Lore of Death
- - - > 65 Points

Cairn Wraith
- - - > XX Points


*************** 5 Core Units ***************

22 Zombies
- - - > XX Points

21 Zombies
- - - > XX Points

10 Crypt Ghouls, Champion
- - - > 110 Points

5 Dire Wolves
- - - > XX Points

5 Dire Wolves
- - - > XX Points


*************** 2 Elite Units ***************

30 Grave Guards, Musician, Standardbearer, Champion
+ Lichebone Pennant
- - - > 375 Points

2 Fell Bats
- - - > XX Points


*************** 1 Rare Unit ***************

Varghulf
- - - > XX Points


Total Points Vampire Counts : 1200


Because of having not enough ION i chose sword and board GG to absorbe some more damage. The varghulf could be a big threat so i have to hide him because of war machines. The two units of zombies should tarpit my enemy at least one turn while i can reform my GG to go on a counter strike. The dire wolves should hunt some war machines or as well as the fell bats do they redirect. The ghouls are for hunting my enemies redirectors and all my characters will move to the GG. Perhaps the cairn wraith goes with the ghouls to block some non magical monsters/characters and so on...

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I would drop the wraith to get the necro a dispel scroll personally

 

[Lich Lord]

Then i would also have enough Points to make my vampire go lvl 2 mage. But isnt the wraith absolutly effective at those low Points? What about the rest of my army? I could also swap the GG for a unit of 13 Black Knights and bring the vampire in there. I forgot to tell you im not allowed to get magic items or vampiric powers for More than 30 Points...

 

[Yorga]

Sounds like a pretty sucky tournament. Sorry but I would not have fun playing in one so restrictive. Does everyone have those limitations?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

So what does everyone think of a Black Orc hero on a boar with a rerollable 1+ and a magic weapon as a assassin and dart?

 

[Chaos_Born]

Points?

 

[Yorga]

So what does everyone think of a Black Orc hero on a boar with a rerollable 1+ and a magic weapon as a assassin and dart?

Lone characters are really easy to pick off with shooting and magic. In fact they are easy points... By assassin, I assume mage assassin? How do you avoid chump challenges?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

By killing the champ with orc magic. Also he comes in at 145. And with a giant aroch trolls wagons an wyvrens i doubt he would be a top target.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Hmm...The problem is that he's contending with the best assassin army in the buisness. For that price you can get a unit of three goblin warbosses on wolves and then some cheap magical weapons/protection. Although they're more fragile, they've more attacks and would be only too happy to go assassinating or could split into three chaff units. More flexibility means more possible tactics. Possibly even give one of them the dragonbane gem and we know what you can do with that don't you

 

[Bounce]

He is not very good. Good chance the enemy may just kill him before he even attacks.
How do you plan on getting a 1+ re rollable save? Taking a shield will mean he is not very choppy.
Even with great weapon its 3 S7 attacks. Problem is really he only hits on 4's vs most characters so he will struggle to kill an enemy. If the enemy is weak their champ will take the challenge and you will lose to combat res and run off.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Sword of striking dragon helm and dawnstone fit snuggle. Add a shield and a pig an you got a 1+. He has been in three games and rocked socks
Game one i got a into the flank of a unit with E-flame and he held them all game
Game two he cleared a entire dwarf artillery park by himself
Game three saw him remove a master necros head.

Over all i would give him a 7/10

 

[Yorga]

What would be the cost of 3 Goblin bosses on wolves formed into a unit (Yes, characters can form ad hoc units.) armed with spears and in a formation of two in the front rank and one behind? Then you could bring 7 str five attacks against the mage you are trying to assassinate. Plus you will get the two wolves for another two str 3 attacks. I think that might be cheaper than your Orc. Talking naked characters here.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Three of them is pretty much the same price as that orc guy I think: about 150

 

[Friendly Dead]

I dont view lone characters very favorably, but Im also playing against High Elves and Dark Elves a lot.

Lone Characters are one of the few good targets for bolt throwers after all.

It depends on your meta.

Against enemies hwo goes all horde he'll have fewer potential targets, but will have an eaier time getting to those that are there. Against MSU enemies he's much more vulnerable and will find it difficult to get to his target. On the other hand there'll likely be more potential targets for him to focus on.

At the end of the day, if he doesnt fly then he's too slow for me. With only ground movement he'll hit his target a turn later than a flying counterpart and with that in mind he'd be better off boosting a unit

 

[TK6445]

Dear Johnny,

When you build a list with a ghoul horde why don't you take a ghoul champion? Is 40 attacks enough for you?

Cheers,
TK6445

 

[redmassam]

So I just ran six Crypt Horrors for the first time. They did their job pretty well, but I'm debating running 9. Should I run them as a 3x3 block, or 4x2 with an extra dude hanging out in the back?

 

[Yorga]

3 x 3 loses 9 attacks for you. You have to be six across to count as a horde.

 

[Strig]

I have found 3x3 crypt horrors works well enough. I only bring one unit of them to trash something that they can handle without help, or tie up something for a flank charge.

Another use for this formation is, due to being 3 deep, it gives me leeway to position my Mortis Engine at an angle from enemy warmachines. The Horrors will still be in the buff range (minimum of 3 inches which is not all that bad) for a 4+ regen and if the enemy fires a cannonball to hit the Engine he/she must outright kill how ever many horrors it clips. I have yet to have the engine die to a cannon ball and I play Empire as a main opponent.

I am sure it will happen, but this set up can offer me up to 3 3+ rolls my enemy needs to make to hit the engine.

- Strig

 

[Yorga]

Another use for this formation is, due to being 3 deep, it gives me leeway to position my Mortis Engine at an angle from enemy warmachines. The Horrors will still be in the buff range (minimum of 3 inches which is not all that bad) for a 4+ regen and if the enemy fires a cannonball to hit the Engine he/she must outright kill how ever many horrors it clips. I have yet to have the engine die to a cannon ball and I play Empire as a main opponent.

I am sure it will happen, but this set up can offer me up to 3 3+ rolls my enemy needs to make to hit the engine.

- Strig

Excellent point. I was only looking at it from an outlook of attacks back. Yes, a cannon ball killing 3 CHs with their regen and 3 wounds each would be beating the odds.

 

[bigbadbat]

Horde formation is useless as you would need 13 CH to benefit from extra rank of attacks, and that is a lot of points. 3x3 your sticking over 100 points into unnecessary ablative wounds that are raised back very easily. Sure it adds an extra layer of cannonball defense, but itsa bit overkill.
Run them 4x2, save yourself some points and increase frontage providing more cover to ME and possibly even having room to hide a CC

 

[redmassam]

Soo.......basically the consensus seems to be horde is not worth it, and to go with a wall of chariot doom. I like the reasoning for not using 3x3, however.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I always take a ghoul champion as my King normally walks around in the unit

 

[bigbadbat]

Dear Johnny,

I'm starting up my Beastmen horde, and am wondering whats the best size to run Bestigors? I'm thinking of running a BS in them as well.

Thanks!

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I think Best friends should be atleast 35 and at most 60. What lores are you running?