Dear Johnny
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Hey Johny!
On Saturday I should play a game with friend of mine (dark elf) against two friends (Lizzy and Brets), and it should be 1500 per player. So, I need some help making a list. It's friendly, but it would be great to kick their asses
First our opponents. They are very competitive, they cant have good time unles they are winning, so the'll bring good listsI played againt them in 2.000 pts. Lizzy would make powerfull slann in TG, Stegadon, those things that spit fire, saurus (?, big lizards) and some scout unit that can shoot at you. He is far more dangerous. Brett guy, he has his ideas, like you cant use shooting things, he is less about tactic, he goes forward. Lord and damsel are in unit of 10 grail knights, then some peasants and archers, pegasus knights and maybe one more unit of lesser knights, no monsters and catapults.
Deal is that my partner should bring caster and my guy should do heavy fighting. Here are some things I planned. VL with RF and QB, with HA, nightshoud, OTS and great weapon. Night because of ASL and if Bret knight charge me they'd loose +2 str. I cant find solutions to put +2 stregth other way but GW. He would go to GG (24, GW, FC BoB). Core would be 30 Ghouls and 2x5DW. That would leave me about 380 pts left. I dont have TG, VG, varghulf of crypt horrors. Maybe Vamp hero (in ghouls) and 5 hexwraith? How should I tool vamp?
Also, any ideas how Dark Elf should build his list? What school of magic (metal is good against bret, or should something else). He owns Couldron, Cold one knights, black guard, executioners, bowmmen, hydras, crossairs. He usually play his mage on pegasus, should he put her in unit?
Thanks!
On Saturday I should play a game with friend of mine (dark elf) against two friends (Lizzy and Brets), and it should be 1500 per player. So, I need some help making a list. It's friendly, but it would be great to kick their asses
First our opponents. They are very competitive, they cant have good time unles they are winning, so the'll bring good listsI played againt them in 2.000 pts. Lizzy would make powerfull slann in TG, Stegadon, those things that spit fire, saurus (?, big lizards) and some scout unit that can shoot at you. He is far more dangerous. Brett guy, he has his ideas, like you cant use shooting things, he is less about tactic, he goes forward. Lord and damsel are in unit of 10 grail knights, then some peasants and archers, pegasus knights and maybe one more unit of lesser knights, no monsters and catapults.
Deal is that my partner should bring caster and my guy should do heavy fighting. Here are some things I planned. VL with RF and QB, with HA, nightshoud, OTS and great weapon. Night because of ASL and if Bret knight charge me they'd loose +2 str. I cant find solutions to put +2 stregth other way but GW. He would go to GG (24, GW, FC BoB). Core would be 30 Ghouls and 2x5DW. That would leave me about 380 pts left. I dont have TG, VG, varghulf of crypt horrors. Maybe Vamp hero (in ghouls) and 5 hexwraith? How should I tool vamp?
Also, any ideas how Dark Elf should build his list? What school of magic (metal is good against bret, or should something else). He owns Couldron, Cold one knights, black guard, executioners, bowmmen, hydras, crossairs. He usually play his mage on pegasus, should he put her in unit?
Thanks!
Help is great, anyone here who have ideas...
Well, I have zombies, skeletons, ghouls and DW. Lots of GG, have 15 Black knights (since we play home I can use them as blood knights or hex if I need more), 5 hex, 4 cairn, 1 banshee, necroes, vamps (on foot and on horse), wight kings (again on foot and mounted), spirit hosts, bat swarms, just dont have our monsters and crypt horrors/vargheists (but I'll get them soon as possible, I like 'em).
Dark elf player. Lots of characters monted and on foot. Two hydras, 20 black guards, 20+ executioners, 10 cold one knights, bolt thrower, coldron, lots of corsairs, 20-30 crossbowmen (?), some harpies (5-10), some witches, think thats about it.
Bret player, as I said above, he plays same thing again and again, usually put half+ points in his grail knights (with both lord and damsel). Lizard, he has everything, but until now, he played with slann, stegadon with sorcer, TG and sausrus worriors. In 1500 he cant make super powerfull slann, so maybe he'll go somewhere else. I guess they'll use life magic.
Well, I have zombies, skeletons, ghouls and DW. Lots of GG, have 15 Black knights (since we play home I can use them as blood knights or hex if I need more), 5 hex, 4 cairn, 1 banshee, necroes, vamps (on foot and on horse), wight kings (again on foot and mounted), spirit hosts, bat swarms, just dont have our monsters and crypt horrors/vargheists (but I'll get them soon as possible, I like 'em).
Dark elf player. Lots of characters monted and on foot. Two hydras, 20 black guards, 20+ executioners, 10 cold one knights, bolt thrower, coldron, lots of corsairs, 20-30 crossbowmen (?), some harpies (5-10), some witches, think thats about it.
Bret player, as I said above, he plays same thing again and again, usually put half+ points in his grail knights (with both lord and damsel). Lizard, he has everything, but until now, he played with slann, stegadon with sorcer, TG and sausrus worriors. In 1500 he cant make super powerfull slann, so maybe he'll go somewhere else. I guess they'll use life magic.
High elf elites champs have access to magical goods as well. TK, lore of fire, and light have spells that can make attacks magical. On any unit. I think HE also have banner that does it too. Skaven!
Dwarven Warmachines, Chaos Knights, Mostly everything in the Chaos Dwarf book, Grail Knights. Think that is about it
Armies that do not have non-spell based magic attacks
OnG
Beastmen
Lizards
Dark Elves (kinda)
Empire
Ogres
Armies that do not have non-spell based magic attacks
OnG
Beastmen
Lizards
Dark Elves (kinda)
Empire
Ogres
Johnny!
Build me a 2500 point list tooled for dark elves!
Specifically a black dragon/hydra/manticore list
40 ghouls 2x5 dire wolves and zombies as troops would be preferred but have access to almost anything
Build me a 2500 point list tooled for dark elves!
Specifically a black dragon/hydra/manticore list
40 ghouls 2x5 dire wolves and zombies as troops would be preferred but have access to almost anything
Opial said:Johnny!
Build me a 2500 point list tooled for dark elves!
Specifically a black dragon/hydra/manticore list
40 ghouls 2x5 dire wolves and zombies as troops would be preferred but have access to almost anything
As a dark elf player I can tell you that all of the above hate screaming stuff. So two Terrorgheists are a good start.
Dear Johnny,
What's the best magical backup for a 40 graveguard/double terrorgheist list? I was thinking 2*Lvl 4 (death/vampires) and 2 lvl 2s (vampires) with a lodestone cart. That gives 4 arcane slots to play with. Dispel scroll is necessary. Powerstone/forbidden rod/periapt for the rest? I'm hesitant to use the forbidden rod as it's 66% likely to kill a little necro and 33% likely to kill the big one, but +d6 dice is nice, and the caster can get healed back up without too much fuss. Of course, there are bound to be situations in which I will kill a necromancer in exchange for a measly 1 PD, but that's pretty unlikely (1/6*1/3=1/18). I know you like the cursed book, and I think that the rod of flaming death is pretty tasty, but space space space! Help me Johnny-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.
-Ether
P.S. I played a game with the above set up sans all items bar the dispel scroll. I won, but it was a near thing and there were 3 turns where I felt magic was important, but could not make it happen.
What's the best magical backup for a 40 graveguard/double terrorgheist list? I was thinking 2*Lvl 4 (death/vampires) and 2 lvl 2s (vampires) with a lodestone cart. That gives 4 arcane slots to play with. Dispel scroll is necessary. Powerstone/forbidden rod/periapt for the rest? I'm hesitant to use the forbidden rod as it's 66% likely to kill a little necro and 33% likely to kill the big one, but +d6 dice is nice, and the caster can get healed back up without too much fuss. Of course, there are bound to be situations in which I will kill a necromancer in exchange for a measly 1 PD, but that's pretty unlikely (1/6*1/3=1/18). I know you like the cursed book, and I think that the rod of flaming death is pretty tasty, but space space space! Help me Johnny-wan Kenobi, you're my only hope.
-Ether
P.S. I played a game with the above set up sans all items bar the dispel scroll. I won, but it was a near thing and there were 3 turns where I felt magic was important, but could not make it happen.
There has been change. Now we play 1250 pts. Since we play on Saturday, if you can do it tonight or tomorrow, it would be great.
So, VC and Dark Elf 1250 against Brets and Lizards. Since we'll share 2D6 powerdice, Dark Elf should be there for magic phase, and mine VC should be more fight oriented. Thanks!
So, VC and Dark Elf 1250 against Brets and Lizards. Since we'll share 2D6 powerdice, Dark Elf should be there for magic phase, and mine VC should be more fight oriented. Thanks!
A highly emotional episode, Johnny, and a great one besides. I think you might even shed a tear. :'(
I have yet to see the last two. Though I heard my least favorite character is in this one.... Sigh.... Also I never liked the ponds
Oh hurry up slowpoke. I'll have seen the Christmas Special by the time you're done!
EDIT: Wait a second... maybe the episodes haven't come out here yet either, but an Angel sent me back in time...
EDIT: Wait a second... maybe the episodes haven't come out here yet either, but an Angel sent me back in time...
Posting after yourself 4 times in one day Johnny? Wow you must be either frisky or crazy!
Anywho I thought I would post up a little thing on how I view the current Warhammer tiers in my mind and experience. If you disagree please let me know.
Starting from the top
Lizardmen: Nothing about this book is really bad if you use your brain for half a second. Yes there are choices you would never touch but that is obvious.
Skaven: I talk smack on this book sometimes but honestly a good Skaven general who knows how to use his toys properly can smack down most people.
Chaos Dwarves: There is a reason I play them. You might be out deployed every game but you bring out all your burn and good luck.
Dark Elves: Mind Razor on I6 4 attack hatred witches.... Need I say more? Underpriced with one bad non character unit in the book (Bolt Thrower).
Ogres: They have come a LONG way from being that joke bottom of the barrel army. Best cannon in the game and best heavy cav make them stupidly good. Just most ogre generals IMO need to be a tad less bold and rash.
Daemons: I may not like it but having one of the top 5 core choices in the game puts you very high on my list. Flamers got nerfed which is why they are not number 3.
Vampire Counts: Yayyy!!! It's us! That is right our book is still as strong as it once was. Not many armies can stand up to a rasiing Cav star or being screamed off a table. Lots of choices means no more mono-VC army.
High Elves: Garbage core and few selections are overlooked when you see their special choices and a bonkers magic item list. They play Dark Elves game just a tad worse.
Beastmen: One of the best core in the game and the 4th strongest magic phase (1st if you play it right) makes Beastmen great. One problem is their garbage LD.
Bretonnia: Hits like a train and has the single best warmachine in the game. Only problem is you can not just pick up a Bretonnian army. Second steepest learning curve in the game.
Empire: Well rounded book but honestly kind of weak. If you have a way to crack a deathstar Empire is not a huge problem for you.
Tombkings: Fantastic units and a strong magic phase. Often overlooked due to their speed. Once again a hard curve puts them low on my list.
Wood Elves: The skill to play a good Wood army is great by itself. Hardest learning curve in the game puts them up here on my list.
OnG: A few strong builds but having a garbage lore and poor LD put them near the bottom IMO.
Warriors: Garbage LD, No Rerolls, Low Model Count, Expensive Frenzy-based ITP. They have the wardsave trick but that is it. One of the worst books in Warhammer right now IMO.
And finally sitting at the bottom.
Dwarves: No Rerolls, Poor Movement, No Drops, Over Priced, No models with more than 1 attack. Only good thing about Dwarves is their anvil.
Please note I am ignoring special characters in this ranking system.
So let me know what you think!
Anywho I thought I would post up a little thing on how I view the current Warhammer tiers in my mind and experience. If you disagree please let me know.
Starting from the top
Lizardmen: Nothing about this book is really bad if you use your brain for half a second. Yes there are choices you would never touch but that is obvious.
Skaven: I talk smack on this book sometimes but honestly a good Skaven general who knows how to use his toys properly can smack down most people.
Chaos Dwarves: There is a reason I play them. You might be out deployed every game but you bring out all your burn and good luck.
Dark Elves: Mind Razor on I6 4 attack hatred witches.... Need I say more? Underpriced with one bad non character unit in the book (Bolt Thrower).
Ogres: They have come a LONG way from being that joke bottom of the barrel army. Best cannon in the game and best heavy cav make them stupidly good. Just most ogre generals IMO need to be a tad less bold and rash.
Daemons: I may not like it but having one of the top 5 core choices in the game puts you very high on my list. Flamers got nerfed which is why they are not number 3.
Vampire Counts: Yayyy!!! It's us! That is right our book is still as strong as it once was. Not many armies can stand up to a rasiing Cav star or being screamed off a table. Lots of choices means no more mono-VC army.
High Elves: Garbage core and few selections are overlooked when you see their special choices and a bonkers magic item list. They play Dark Elves game just a tad worse.
Beastmen: One of the best core in the game and the 4th strongest magic phase (1st if you play it right) makes Beastmen great. One problem is their garbage LD.
Bretonnia: Hits like a train and has the single best warmachine in the game. Only problem is you can not just pick up a Bretonnian army. Second steepest learning curve in the game.
Empire: Well rounded book but honestly kind of weak. If you have a way to crack a deathstar Empire is not a huge problem for you.
Tombkings: Fantastic units and a strong magic phase. Often overlooked due to their speed. Once again a hard curve puts them low on my list.
Wood Elves: The skill to play a good Wood army is great by itself. Hardest learning curve in the game puts them up here on my list.
OnG: A few strong builds but having a garbage lore and poor LD put them near the bottom IMO.
Warriors: Garbage LD, No Rerolls, Low Model Count, Expensive Frenzy-based ITP. They have the wardsave trick but that is it. One of the worst books in Warhammer right now IMO.
And finally sitting at the bottom.
Dwarves: No Rerolls, Poor Movement, No Drops, Over Priced, No models with more than 1 attack. Only good thing about Dwarves is their anvil.
Please note I am ignoring special characters in this ranking system.
So let me know what you think!
Vengeance Crusader
Grave Guard
Nice listing- and I would generally agree. Especially with your point on Bretonnia: They either charge- or they loose... (and I do HATE the double trebuchet...:grave: )
I am surprised at how you placed the Lizards at the top- though perhaps I have yet to play a solid Lizardmen army...
I am surprised at how you placed the Lizards at the top- though perhaps I have yet to play a solid Lizardmen army...
The only army I disagree with in your rankings is Warriors - I think you're letting their shitty matchup vs. VC influence your opinions a little too much. Consider for a second the following list:
Invaders - 2500 points
Core - 1117 points
2 x 20 Chaos Marauders, Flails, Mark of Slaanesh, Musician, Standard-Bearer
4 x 5 Chaos Warhounds
18 Chaos Warriors, Banner of Eternal Flame, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Musician, Shields, Standard-Bearer
18 Chaos Warriors, Banner of Rage, Halberds, Mark of Nurgle, Musician, Shields, Standard-Bearer
Special - 730 points
2 x Chaos Chariot, Mark of Slaanesh
9 Chaos Knights, Blasted Standard, Full Command, Mark of Tzeentch [BSB goes here]
Heroes - 236 points
Exalted Hero, BSB, Barded Chaos Steed, Book of Secrets, Dispel Scroll, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Soporific Musk [Lore of Shadows]
Lords - 425 points
Sorcerer Lord, Biting Blade, Charmed Shield, Disc of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet, L4 Wizard, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch [Lore of Tzeentch]
Grand Total: 2498 points
Yep, that's an MMU list I'm showing you. Why, you ask? Because this is one of the things that Warriors can do really well that most armies simply can't. The vast majority of these units are ItP, and the one that isn't causes Fear and has access to the BSB re-roll, so it might as well have it. This list gives several lists a whole host of problems, because every block hits hard and can more or less take care of itself. Combo-charging is the key to playing this list effectively, and don't be afraid to sacrifice a Chariot or a Marauder unit to make that happen. This list won't blow many people out, but the goal is winning by +101, and it does that pretty well.
Invaders - 2500 points
Core - 1117 points
2 x 20 Chaos Marauders, Flails, Mark of Slaanesh, Musician, Standard-Bearer
4 x 5 Chaos Warhounds
18 Chaos Warriors, Banner of Eternal Flame, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Musician, Shields, Standard-Bearer
18 Chaos Warriors, Banner of Rage, Halberds, Mark of Nurgle, Musician, Shields, Standard-Bearer
Special - 730 points
2 x Chaos Chariot, Mark of Slaanesh
9 Chaos Knights, Blasted Standard, Full Command, Mark of Tzeentch [BSB goes here]
Heroes - 236 points
Exalted Hero, BSB, Barded Chaos Steed, Book of Secrets, Dispel Scroll, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Soporific Musk [Lore of Shadows]
Lords - 425 points
Sorcerer Lord, Biting Blade, Charmed Shield, Disc of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet, L4 Wizard, Mark of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeentch [Lore of Tzeentch]
Grand Total: 2498 points
Yep, that's an MMU list I'm showing you. Why, you ask? Because this is one of the things that Warriors can do really well that most armies simply can't. The vast majority of these units are ItP, and the one that isn't causes Fear and has access to the BSB re-roll, so it might as well have it. This list gives several lists a whole host of problems, because every block hits hard and can more or less take care of itself. Combo-charging is the key to playing this list effectively, and don't be afraid to sacrifice a Chariot or a Marauder unit to make that happen. This list won't blow many people out, but the goal is winning by +101, and it does that pretty well.
Vengeance Lizards are up there for a reason. Uncomped tournament level Lizards are a nightmare.
Roth I have played against a similar list a number of times (marauders were combined, no MON). I have played them with Dark Elves, VC, Chaos Dwarves and Beasts. Only game I struggled to win with was Beastmen but I won that like I won all my games with Beasts. I rank them down there for a reason though they would be higher with Specials included.
Roth I have played against a similar list a number of times (marauders were combined, no MON). I have played them with Dark Elves, VC, Chaos Dwarves and Beasts. Only game I struggled to win with was Beastmen but I won that like I won all my games with Beasts. I rank them down there for a reason though they would be higher with Specials included.