I hear everyone talking abt the big demaons a lot and I'm wandering Wat lord build would smack them around with ease
demaon slayer
- Thread starter valin
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That's why everyone talks about them. There isn't a build to slap them, we will forever take second seat in realm of combat when facing them.
Narenzade said:
Thats not profit, thats 1500pts to beat up 500!
Better to chaff them out of the way if possible.
Tie them up with zombies and chaff
Problem is they're really fast
IMO there isn't a solid counter, it's more about out the playstyle of the controlling player
Problem is they're really fast
IMO there isn't a solid counter, it's more about out the playstyle of the controlling player
Double TG screams will kill 3 out of 4 Greater Deamons with average rolls, no need for anything else to keep them honest:grave:
or just dont kill him. kill the other units instead.
if you were a bank robber that could chose between robbing the state of the art super bank OR the country office (and you knew that they contained the same amount of money) why would you focus on how to get passed all the traps/lock/guards of the superbank instead of just pulling a nylon stocking over your head, go to the toy chop and buy a toy gun (ok, dont wear the stocking when you do this) and a plastic bag and go down to the country office of the bank and demand cash money for your retirement at the virgin islands. meanwhile you send zombies in to the super-bank to keep it bussy... :zombie:
ok, the metaphor doesnt hold all the way, but you get my point
if you were a bank robber that could chose between robbing the state of the art super bank OR the country office (and you knew that they contained the same amount of money) why would you focus on how to get passed all the traps/lock/guards of the superbank instead of just pulling a nylon stocking over your head, go to the toy chop and buy a toy gun (ok, dont wear the stocking when you do this) and a plastic bag and go down to the country office of the bank and demand cash money for your retirement at the virgin islands. meanwhile you send zombies in to the super-bank to keep it bussy... :zombie:
ok, the metaphor doesnt hold all the way, but you get my point
Because the super bank is going swoop in and save the little county banks ass. Nah, to fight a Thirster you have to punk it. Screams are the best way to get it weak then finish it with our heavy combat units.
Thinking a bit more broadly perhaps.
-All demons have magical attacks therefore ethereal units probably are not worth it here, also they are all unbreakable so leave at home any stuff that relies on terror. Cairn wraiths for example.
-Other Trickster's shard is a great idea to circumvent ward saves
-Demon units generally don't have a lot of attacks. Thus bloodletters and plaguebearers are easy to tarpit with zombies.
-Demon players often take a horde of bloodletters. Units of fell bats and dire wolves can prevent them from getting into combat with anything important
-Flamers can be a problem- perhaps a lone vamp hero with dragonhelm can take them down?
-As has been pointing out screaming at demons can be fun
-Lone fiends can perhaps be dealt with by Vargheists
Just a few thoughts. The main thing is don't panic. Demons can be beaten.
-All demons have magical attacks therefore ethereal units probably are not worth it here, also they are all unbreakable so leave at home any stuff that relies on terror. Cairn wraiths for example.
-Other Trickster's shard is a great idea to circumvent ward saves
-Demon units generally don't have a lot of attacks. Thus bloodletters and plaguebearers are easy to tarpit with zombies.
-Demon players often take a horde of bloodletters. Units of fell bats and dire wolves can prevent them from getting into combat with anything important
-Flamers can be a problem- perhaps a lone vamp hero with dragonhelm can take them down?
-As has been pointing out screaming at demons can be fun
-Lone fiends can perhaps be dealt with by Vargheists
Just a few thoughts. The main thing is don't panic. Demons can be beaten.
I play daemons as well as vampires and this is a matchup that isnt great for any of the armies but usually worse for vampires than the other way around.
Important things to consider
flamers - have moved to special, increased cost, gets penalty for multiple shots, S4 instead of S5 in combat, may give the target unit D3 extrawounds or 6+ regeneration save. Taken together a lot of daemon players will put them on the shelf or at least run them in smaller units such as 2 x 3 flamers.
Screamers - slashing attacks now need to roll to hit, they do D3 wounds on large targets. Overall they get better and instead of not being included they will now be present in many lists.
New chariots should be good at killing lots of weak infantry with impact hits and various other stuff.
They can really hurt your LD if they want to. -2 LD banner, access to lore of death, access to lore of slaanesh, masque special character etc
They have access to lore master ability also for hero level casters. Most popular lore for daemons around here is lore of light that gives amazing buffs to many daemon units. Personally I dont use thirster but a lvl4 caster with lore of light. Twin heads gives an additional +2 to cast. Of course lore of light also has the ability to really hurt vampires and especially if they have more than one caster that knows the lore (+1S for each caster to spell that does 4D6 hits on undead)
They have some really naste special characters. Worst one is probably Kairos. Each head picks spells from any of the lores in the rule book. This means that we will be able to cast throne of wines, dwellers from below, purple sun and some crazy combos of buffs using the same caster with a +6 to cast modifier.
Changeling, swaps stats with anyone in base to base contact
Lots of stuff including GD fly or run very fast M10 such as M10 fiends.
Access to multiple dispel scrolls
Importantly their main weakness is that they have a very low number of units and they cant to all of the above at the same time. Pick your combats and avoid the really nasty stuff.
Also all daemon core except for plaguebearers are rather expensive models with T3 and no armour save (5+ ward) meaning that VC core can actually get kills and potentially win through attrition. Of course buffs or curses from any side can change everything.
Important things to consider
flamers - have moved to special, increased cost, gets penalty for multiple shots, S4 instead of S5 in combat, may give the target unit D3 extrawounds or 6+ regeneration save. Taken together a lot of daemon players will put them on the shelf or at least run them in smaller units such as 2 x 3 flamers.
Screamers - slashing attacks now need to roll to hit, they do D3 wounds on large targets. Overall they get better and instead of not being included they will now be present in many lists.
New chariots should be good at killing lots of weak infantry with impact hits and various other stuff.
They can really hurt your LD if they want to. -2 LD banner, access to lore of death, access to lore of slaanesh, masque special character etc
They have access to lore master ability also for hero level casters. Most popular lore for daemons around here is lore of light that gives amazing buffs to many daemon units. Personally I dont use thirster but a lvl4 caster with lore of light. Twin heads gives an additional +2 to cast. Of course lore of light also has the ability to really hurt vampires and especially if they have more than one caster that knows the lore (+1S for each caster to spell that does 4D6 hits on undead)
They have some really naste special characters. Worst one is probably Kairos. Each head picks spells from any of the lores in the rule book. This means that we will be able to cast throne of wines, dwellers from below, purple sun and some crazy combos of buffs using the same caster with a +6 to cast modifier.
Changeling, swaps stats with anyone in base to base contact
Lots of stuff including GD fly or run very fast M10 such as M10 fiends.
Access to multiple dispel scrolls
Importantly their main weakness is that they have a very low number of units and they cant to all of the above at the same time. Pick your combats and avoid the really nasty stuff.
Also all daemon core except for plaguebearers are rather expensive models with T3 and no armour save (5+ ward) meaning that VC core can actually get kills and potentially win through attrition. Of course buffs or curses from any side can change everything.
Wait... I'm sorry, but my eyes can't believe it: Flamers now get penalty for Multiple shots?? *O*?
I did not know this... our local DoC player owes me a rematch!
(Why? because now, Vargheists can destroy these punks with impunity ^O^!)
I did not know this... our local DoC player owes me a rematch!
(Why? because now, Vargheists can destroy these punks with impunity ^O^!)
2 TG's don't make a Lord Build (last I checked), I also would advise against putting your Lord on one when dealing with Daemons.
Potion of Strength, +3 Attack Sword, Red Fury and ASF? Hope he kills'em as this load out leaves you wanting in the Magic Items defence department...
Most likely epic fail though unless your tearing a GDoT apart.
Potion of Strength, +3 Attack Sword, Red Fury and ASF? Hope he kills'em as this load out leaves you wanting in the Magic Items defence department...
Most likely epic fail though unless your tearing a GDoT apart.
valin said:
In 7th ed there were some reasons to potentially hate daemons. In 8th most of the really bad combos are gone especially if yuo play without special characters but daemons are not unique in having special characters that are of the chart in power level compared to cost.
With the recent flamer nerf (which I think did go a bit to far) they have some nasty combos but a lot of armies have ways to deal with them. It becomes a bit rock-paper-scissors sometimes but again that is not unique to daemons.
Use the fact that they dont have that many units and try to avoid fighting on their terms and most armies will do OK. If you run your expensive general alone into a GD he will most likely kill you (which he also should be doing most of the times according to fluff or the warhammer world).
If you run anything into the front of a buffed letter horde lots of things will die but again why would you want to do that?
Killing his support units should net sufficient points for a win and if you can take out the casters those letters will be a lot less scary.
Burnanation
Crypt Horror
TG dance. Zoom your TG behind the big baddie and scream him down to ashes. Keep dancing the TG around. No lord, no hero. If you have the money take 2 TG.
Ty for the clarification. Spirit host can hurt a unit badly if they have no magical attacks correct.
I just thought abt this but daemon don't teleport in like in 40k correct
I just thought abt this but daemon don't teleport in like in 40k correct
Not badly as they are only WS 3 S 3 but they can be an annoyance. Against something like a warsphinx, send a lone spirit host at them and watch your cheap unit tie up a 230 point monster for the entire game since it has no magical attacks.
There is no deep striking in Warhammer Fantasy, correct.
There is no deep striking in Warhammer Fantasy, correct.
Thank god. I hated it in 40k. Always seemed like the dice gods were in there favour.
I think I might be taking to spirit hosts now that I now Wat theyre capable of doing.
I think I might be taking to spirit hosts now that I now Wat theyre capable of doing.
Johnny-Crass said:Well one army can deepstrike but it is not Daemons
Give you a hint :skull:
Scorpions!