DoN's Hypothetical Situations

[Disciple of Nagash]

It's amazing how despite being the only fully aware animal on this planet, with the ability to think logically etc, that we still can and will make potentially massive decisions based on how we fell. I say this as one of those who would do that.

Great discussion, if no one else wants to contribute I'll see if I can get another good one up tomorrow. perv

 

[Sweeney Todd]

It's amazing how despite being the only fully aware animal on this planet, with the ability to think logically etc, that we still can and will make potentially massive decisions based on how we fell. I say this as one of those who would do that.

Great discussion, if no one else wants to contribute I'll see if I can get another good one up tomorrow. perv

Funny you say that. No matter how certain people like to think of themselves as rational people, we are at our core irrational. Thinking otherwise is itself a sort of denial of our own nature, or at least that's my opinion.

 

[Bullhax]

It's amazing how despite being the only fully aware animal on this planet, with the ability to think logically etc, that we still can and will make potentially massive decisions based on how we fell. I say this as one of those who would do that.

Great discussion, if no one else wants to contribute I'll see if I can get another good one up tomorrow. perv

This has been really fun to follow, will look forward to the next one!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

[mod]Question 2[/mod]

If you are in a current relationship, for this pretend you are single.

You are offered this choice: You will meet the person of your dreams, and they are perfect. Physically, mentally, everything is tune. The time you have together will also be perfect, perfect joy and happiness that pretty much no one will ever experience.

However in after a year of this they will betray you for someone else, someone close to you. They will leave you and go with them, leaving you heartbroken.

What do you choose: To have the year of happiness and the resulting pain, or not risk it (possibly never experiencing the possible high / low). Note that once you have made this choice you will forget all about the future knowledge (hence being able to enjoy the year / be shocked by the betrayal).

In short, better to have loved and lost, or not?

 

[Lynks]

I'd pick the second otpion. Losses affect people greater than gains after all and for the rest of my life I'd constantly be comparing things to those perfect times. I'd much rather have a more natural reference point with some of the good and some of the bad- the higher you are the farther you fall after all!

 

[Get of W'soran]

I'll pick the second option. I honestly don't see why anyone would pick the first.

The Hypothetical sounds too much like a historical factual for my liking :tongue:

 

[NoisyAssassin]

Lynks brings up a good point. In general I'm of the love-and-lose camp, but with a stipulated perfect person...that's going to mess with all your future relationships in a bad way.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Lynks brings up a good point. In general I'm of the love-and-lose camp, but with a stipulated perfect person...that's going to mess with all your future relationships in a bad way.

This. Not only is it unfair on yourself, but it's unfair on the future partners who will forever feel like Martha with Ten.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Yeah I'm in the boat to let that one go. I mean, the potetial perfect is great and all but then to see that perfection leave your side for someone else would destroy you and from that point on all you will do is critique every other person you are with! "Oh well Kate Beckonsale wouldn't have used so much teeth!"

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I would rather not experience perfection only to have it snatched away.
I would tend to start thinking down the, they stabbed me in the back with this other person i care about, lets skin them both route.

Break ups are fine but being betrayed is something I would have trouble letting go of.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Yeah!! You get the whole OJ Simpson thing goin on!

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

If someone you cared about did that to you removing the thing you care about the most and then rubbing salt in your wounds going off with someone else who means allot to you which they possibly cheated on you with then I believe I should be able to remove the one thing they were more attached to than myself.
Its their own fault that it was their skin... :devil2:

 

[Sanai]

The inevitable result of all human relationships that persist for long enough is betrayal, as such I prefer not to enter into them in the first place. Hence I would say no.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Hmm, so not so much of a discussion on this one then. Ok then lets try something else.

[mod]Question 3[/mod]

All laws are suspended for 24 hours. During this time you can do anything you like, without repercussion from the law - although you will still be subject to any morales you or others you know value, hence you would still feel guilty if you would do normally.

So the question is, would you do something that would normally break the law, and if so what? Just remember this can be something as simple as finally thumping that annoying neighbour or speeding 200 miles an hour down a motorway......or you could finally decide to get hold of that sniper rifle and take out a famous political leader....

What would you do?

 

[Sanai]

I would spend 24 Hours trying to Rob Banks or ATMs.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

To be honest only 2 things come to mind.
Shopping Spree and killing the people I REALLY HATE.

Afterall, why the hell not?
I have this one guy at work as well which gets me to the point where I want to cut off their face, wrap it around my fist and repeatedly pound it into that mass of meat untill I am just pounding wet chunks of bone into the ground as his head comes apart in somthing i hope would be very cinematic come the movie adaptation. erv:

 

[Theerteen]

*joins the "FUCK THE WORLD!"-train*

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Methinks Emma Watson would need much more than a bedroom made of rock and iron... erv:

In all seriousness, I would fortify my home and not open the door. No matter how depraved you become, there is always somebody worse. I wouldn't want to meet that person.

Besides that, I think it's very dangerous, even unhealthy, to think that if the law was removed, even just for a little bit, that you'd go crazy and become a rampaging serial killer. It's only a small step to go from "I'd only do that if the law wasn't there" to "I'll do it with the law and hopefully get away with it". Besides that I would still have to live with myself afterwards.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Methinks Emma Watson would need much more than a bedroom made of rock and iron... erv:

In all seriousness, I would fortify my home and not open the door. No matter how depraved you become, there is always somebody worse. I wouldn't want to meet that person.

Besides that, I think it's very dangerous, even unhealthy, to think that if the law was removed, even just for a little bit, that you'd go crazy and become a rampaging serial killer. It's only a small step to go from "I'd only do that if the law wasn't there" to "I'll do it with the law and hopefully get away with it". Besides that I would still have to live with myself afterwards.

Right and wrong are just a matter of getting caught and having to justify an action based on preconceptions imposed on you by your peers and society.
Now where as i fully understand the ramifications of such an action may have it would not otherwise deter myself.

I will acknowledge the fact that once you open the hypothetical door to such an action being carried out, more would stand the much higher chance of following but you must ask yourself, why do you not do things?
Is it because of the consequence or that it is wrong?
Right and Wrong are just view points which change hugely from person to person, where urges to carry out actions are your true thoughts and feelings, you just shackle them down with all our self imposed rules which is fostered by our society.

Personally speaking I am aware of such thoughts and urges within myself and where as i would give them voice I would only give them action such the need arrive.
However should such need arrive I would not balk at carrying out such actions but on some levels would even enjoy it, now that there is the urges of your mind manifest, to say otherwise is to lie to yourself.
You just need to be aware though just because you can do something and may in fact do it with willful glee does not mean you will do it just because you can, its sometimes enough just to know that you could if the urge took you.
Its much like the age old paranoia that if a man is gay he will leap on you the moment your back is turned (Quite literally) which we all in fact know is a load of rubbish, this is just another example of closed off thinking allowing and even nurturing the gestation of fear about our own thoughts and actions.

 

[Sanai]

I think the point Darvy is driving at that the reason we don't murder shouldn't be that it is illegal- the reason we don't murder should be that its wrong to murder, that a good person would not murder even if it was legal to do so. (Unless they absolutely had to)

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

But the point is, good and bad are imposed concepts of morality which is created by society until we foster it as our own and pass it along to the next generation.
We have no trouble justifying killing someone if said person has something we want when looking on the international scale, could one day be a threat of a perceived slight is great enough we would in fact then kill on a industrial scale because we have been told to do so and that it is ok and then the action would be later applauded.

Kill a person here and you go to jail, kill a person elsewhere and you get a medal... this is all because you have been told it is ok because someone has decided that they should die.
You are doing what you have been told but the question is, you do it because you have been told to because it is then justified.
Now is it really any worse to justify such a action yourself without another's say so?

 

[Sanai]

Now is it really any worse to justify such a action yourself without another's say so?

In that case you are setting yourself up as judge, jury & executioner. You are saying that you have the right to choose if another human lives or dies, that you are superior to them and above them. We as individuals simply do not have all of the information to make that decision. Do you know that persons family? Do you know all of that persons friends and loved ones? Do you know who depends on that person and who will miss them? Do you know what that person will go on to do if allowed to live? The person you choose to kill may seem like a bad person to you but there may be people who love or rely on that person, or that person may have personal growth in their future that makes them into a better person. That person may go on to do important things that you will prevent by killing them.

Society has arbitrary rules about who lives and who dies yes, but the difference between societies rules and your personal decisions is that societies rules are an agreed upon social contract. The system works not because of whether the systems decisions are correct or not, but because the majority agree to follow the system. If individuals start ignoring the rules of society and making those decisions themselves then you end up with nothing functioning. You end up with some guy killing you Danse Macabre, simply because they don't like the colour of your hair or skin, or just because you were there, or just because they disagree with you.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Not anything so grand.
Just a choice born from need with which you are free to make.
I am not saying kill every 3rd person but in fact am saying if the need arose you could act with impunity and not be held hostage by your own metal self restraints.
The persons family in this case is irrelevant, this is a individuals choice made by one person same as they can make themselves, running around yelling think of the children only ever slows any action you undertake or any progress in society in other things such as learning due to people moral and religious scruples.

By saying that they would become a great person that may go on to help others, it would be just as likely the opposite.
Its not the case of what ifs but the then and now, after all you can not let hesitation rule the day on a what if because what "if" never comes?

The rules are agreed and rewrite time and time again to suit personal agenda, be this profit, fame, power or maybe even the greater good it is down to a very small amount of people in each nation, in most cases lower than the amount of people in this thread to make that choice.
That is their choice, you are still free to make yours and you have to remember that you have the same drives and urges as any of them and they you.
Its not so much they agree to follow the system, they were at one time brought into the system against their wills by force which has over the years changed and been enforced by all manner of punishments and threats, simply because you choose to look outside the system is not so much an issue.
The problem is that the convent they seek to impose is that there is only one system and it is not this greater understanding made to benefit and protect all but it is made to be a direct benefit to those that choose what happens and how high you jump.

That may be the case, I may get him first but in this lies a social dilemma is what happens after that, does my friend then kill him, does his friend then kill me?
These are the new consequences you live with, there will always be one of some description but regardless of the situation if it came down to it and someone came for me I would do my utmost to at the very least take him with me even if I had to gouge out his eyes and my throat was slit open I would go out with laughter bubbling from my throat because at that moment in time I would still of been the one and only master of my own destiny and I had never been more alive.
Better a day as a wolf than a hundred years as a sheep.

 

[Corien Sumatris]

Well I may not be on the murder train but I'm pretty sure I would steal a real fast car then drive really fast in that car! And not go to work that day cause hell yeah!! And pee in public!

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I notice you aren't too keen on societal rules, DDM, and I can appreciate why this might be the case. You argue (correct me if I'm wrong) that our mind's urges and desires are shackled by these rules, and that society is just an arbitrary barrier.

But if we give in to every base desire, if we don't follow this social contract to be better for the benefit of everyone, what separates us from animals? You might argue that our morals are so arbitrary and so self-motivated that it makes us worse than if we just followed base instinct, but that would (I'm afraid) make you the minority.

This is incredibly incoherent because I'm late for a lecture and sorely lacking sleep, but I shall return to this thread later! :slapface: