I am just more upset about the access to Vampire Lore. It's not like Chaos needed Invocation, Danse, or Vigour...
End Times: Archaon
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I don't think you need to worry very much about that since those spells say that they can only target Undead units, although I suppose chaos players could just raise some up with the lore of undeath and then go to town with Isabella. o.o
Well, she could also get Raise Dead... CoY and WoD would be nasty against us too.
Yeah, but not worse than anything else they'd throw at us. Raise Dead is a pain, but chaos already had access to Lore of Undeath, and I haven't seen any chaos players trying to use it. If you have to summon undead to the table before using it, invocation isn't that hot, and without invocation I just don't see any chaos players opting to use LoV on izzy over her other options.
And that's assuming they run her at all. She isn't exactly that great a character, spending as much as she does on melee range abilities while lacking the solid defenses needed to survive in close combat.
And that's assuming they run her at all. She isn't exactly that great a character, spending as much as she does on melee range abilities while lacking the solid defenses needed to survive in close combat.
Yeah, personally I kind of doubt most chaos players will even pick her up. I'm expecting to have to buy and paint her myself if I want to be able to play against her in the narrative scenarios.
Just finished reading Lord of the End Times...
I did not care much for Arkhan before. I do now.
The style of the narrative, tragic as it may be, also hints at the possibility of miracle. Not in the form of the finale, with the man grasping for the world-seed, but specifically for the Undead as well.
Somehow I don't think all the heroes of the past are lost. I think we will see them return... somehow
=D
I did not care much for Arkhan before. I do now.
The style of the narrative, tragic as it may be, also hints at the possibility of miracle. Not in the form of the finale, with the man grasping for the world-seed, but specifically for the Undead as well.
Somehow I don't think all the heroes of the past are lost. I think we will see them return... somehow
=D
I've got my fingers crossed for a soft reset, with Sigmar rebooting the old world back to five minutes before midnight, only with a few key changes that make it possible for team order to succeed this time. Changes like Malekith was made phoenix king to begin with, Sigmar was never trapped in the vortex, etc.
But really at this point it could be anything. We might get the bubblehammer post-apocalypse, with factions battling over shards of a broken planet in the warp, and all the characters killed in the end times are just dead. Or we might get a hard reset, with an entirely new warhammer world that shares nothing with the previous setting, and none of our old cast ever existed in this new world.
Or we might get anything else, really. There's no telling at this point. Best not to get your hopes up for any particular possibility. Resign yourself to the worst, and it can only be better than that, right?
But really at this point it could be anything. We might get the bubblehammer post-apocalypse, with factions battling over shards of a broken planet in the warp, and all the characters killed in the end times are just dead. Or we might get a hard reset, with an entirely new warhammer world that shares nothing with the previous setting, and none of our old cast ever existed in this new world.
Or we might get anything else, really. There's no telling at this point. Best not to get your hopes up for any particular possibility. Resign yourself to the worst, and it can only be better than that, right?
Waiting is of course the hard part. I was in the middle of painting my grave gaurd standard and had one of those, do I or don't i , moments. Finaly said to hell with it so the old von drak banners are getting done with vlads band on them. Well March in memory if nothing else.
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
Actually a varghulf is just a voluntary descent into madness. If a vampire doesn't feed he is compelled to seek blood, varghulfs are vampires that let that compulsion be there existence making them always hunting for blood hungry or not.
Which is why varghiests come from not feeding. The compulsion has taken over, but the vampire never gave into it.
No, first option is lack of feeding vs excessive feeding, second is forced descent into bloodlust through starvation and imprisonment vs willing descent into bloodlust. Personally I don't like the distinction, but the second option is the one stated in the army book.
Haha, I guess...
we do know that Vargheist-ing is through a forced starvation, be it willing or unwilling (those who refuse to feed for a prolonged time can turn Vargheist, each passing moment of starvation removes a piece of "humanity" left). This is kinda cool, since I didn't know the lore behind this form of vampirism, and every version of the undead has their teachings, including (shudders) Twilight.
However, the Varghulf-isation is a bit more complex. It is not necessarily just over-feeding, but letting yourself go in the moment in such an excess that, by the passing of time, all humanity is shed and the body adapts to a more willing bestial nature (bigger body, semi-wings, being chubby, etc). But the point is:
Letting yourself go into two extremes. Or at least that's how Vlad von Carstein explains it. And I will not argue with Vlad von Carstein D:
we do know that Vargheist-ing is through a forced starvation, be it willing or unwilling (those who refuse to feed for a prolonged time can turn Vargheist, each passing moment of starvation removes a piece of "humanity" left). This is kinda cool, since I didn't know the lore behind this form of vampirism, and every version of the undead has their teachings, including (shudders) Twilight.
However, the Varghulf-isation is a bit more complex. It is not necessarily just over-feeding, but letting yourself go in the moment in such an excess that, by the passing of time, all humanity is shed and the body adapts to a more willing bestial nature (bigger body, semi-wings, being chubby, etc). But the point is:
Letting yourself go into two extremes. Or at least that's how Vlad von Carstein explains it. And I will not argue with Vlad von Carstein D:
Emicrania
Wight King
i didn't read the last book, but I care only about one thing, does bubblehammer looks possible or not?
...yes and also no:
Yes: since Chaos swalloed the whole world, it is possible that certain bastions could have survived in some form or another (think Kaldor Draigo who can "survive" inside the realms of chaos). Also, the last text hints that once unity brought the Chaos Gods victory, immediatelly they reversed back to their eternal in-fighting, and that could allow some small groups of survivors to hold their ground and, and attempt to return back later. However, those forces would be small in number (At least we know that some took refuge in the Grey Mountains - Bretonnia and Abhorash, and some even in Sylvania, protected by the Dead, also Athel Loren was razed, yet perhaps some elves survived there and/or the Elves that went on their special Haven that Lileath created since it is unclear that they perished or not, only that Lileath could not sense them anymore).
No: it is also said that "only one soul survived the unmaking of Chaos (Sigmar probably) and that he took the world-seed to spark new life in a new world" perhaps. Everything else was just darkness and void.
Possible? yes, it is possible, but only from the eye of the beholder D:
Yes: since Chaos swalloed the whole world, it is possible that certain bastions could have survived in some form or another (think Kaldor Draigo who can "survive" inside the realms of chaos). Also, the last text hints that once unity brought the Chaos Gods victory, immediatelly they reversed back to their eternal in-fighting, and that could allow some small groups of survivors to hold their ground and, and attempt to return back later. However, those forces would be small in number (At least we know that some took refuge in the Grey Mountains - Bretonnia and Abhorash, and some even in Sylvania, protected by the Dead, also Athel Loren was razed, yet perhaps some elves survived there and/or the Elves that went on their special Haven that Lileath created since it is unclear that they perished or not, only that Lileath could not sense them anymore).
No: it is also said that "only one soul survived the unmaking of Chaos (Sigmar probably) and that he took the world-seed to spark new life in a new world" perhaps. Everything else was just darkness and void.
Possible? yes, it is possible, but only from the eye of the beholder D:
El Syf
Vargheist
So just finished lord of the end times and the Archaon fluff book. I'd say lord of the end times is the better option from VC perspective as we get so much more VC goodness.
As far as killing the world goes, I'm not too fussed everything ends and the warhammer world got an epic ending.
One thing that has annoyed me is the amount of people who have been fuming that everyone's been killed off and there is no point playing anymore; in the 7th ed VC book all of our characters (bar possibly manfred?) were dead it wasn't that much of a problem.
Stories have endings and warhammer has an ending now, that does not stop anyone playing games or coming up with fluff to fit around the end times.
Which I for one have enjoyed apart from Tyrion not staying dead...
As far as killing the world goes, I'm not too fussed everything ends and the warhammer world got an epic ending.
One thing that has annoyed me is the amount of people who have been fuming that everyone's been killed off and there is no point playing anymore; in the 7th ed VC book all of our characters (bar possibly manfred?) were dead it wasn't that much of a problem.
Stories have endings and warhammer has an ending now, that does not stop anyone playing games or coming up with fluff to fit around the end times.
Which I for one have enjoyed apart from Tyrion not staying dead...
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
Judging from what I've seen on the forums, the people raging are those who:
1) have not played WHFB since 6th or 7th edition;
2) think that 8th is all about "hordes and super spells";
3) have not read the End Times, outside of the final page and cliffnotes in the spoiler threads; and
4) are lamenting the "invalidation" of rules, novels, and RPG material that they read years ago and haven't touched since.
Everybody I know who actually *PLAYS* Warhammer, or who *READ* the End Times books, thinks everything is awesome. I for one am very stoked about 9th edition, and the fluff reset. The Old World was kind of shit, TBH. Can't wait to see what they make of this reboot.
I play warhammer and have read (most of) the end times books, and I'm looking towards ninth with no small amount of skepticism. Frankly, at the moment I think its more likely that ninthbwill fail and warhammer fantasy will just die out than that it will succeed and see the game carry forward into 10th and beyond. But we'll see. In the mean time, I enjoy end times, and I'm content to play games in this period for as long as it lasts.
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
This seems like a very passive aggressive post towards people who think it wasn't awesome. I don't fall under any of those categories, and I both play warhammer and have read the end times.
Oh I see what Robert is saying, especially if you look at warseer and such. I for one will admit to not playing 8 th at all due to my area being pretty 40k and Magic the gathering fan area, ( there was a game I didn't think would really stay) I don't have a big beef with the change, personally I think the story line was getting to much. Let's face it 25+years is a long run. For a time line that really didn't move much.
I do remember the old days when the game was easier to get started in and I think that would help GW. They have made some big changes over the last year, and the new bosses seem to be fixing things abit. I'm kinda now just waiting to see what's coming. I'm hoping they don't scrap the big game and go to a mini game type, but I don't think that's what is coming. I think it's more like the old days of the chaos book. Build a warband with random charactors and go. Was more about the story and your mini's than the 2000+pints being standard
I do remember the old days when the game was easier to get started in and I think that would help GW. They have made some big changes over the last year, and the new bosses seem to be fixing things abit. I'm kinda now just waiting to see what's coming. I'm hoping they don't scrap the big game and go to a mini game type, but I don't think that's what is coming. I think it's more like the old days of the chaos book. Build a warband with random charactors and go. Was more about the story and your mini's than the 2000+pints being standard
Well the way I see it you hold the timeline still and expand on the lore and diversity in the world, kind of like the Discworld books, or you streamline that for the sake of moving plot lines forward. I strongly feel that option A suits this game just fine precisely because nobody's stuff gets invalidated and our fluff can be enjoyed for what it is, a colourful backdrop for our hobby, instead of monitored for constant change and signs of what's to come in the next 6 months, and what it'll mean for our costly existing collections. Warmachine have taken option B and it works for them because it was built into their release strategy; I really hope this End Of Times thing stays that way, and we wind the clock back to the twilight hours and keep our armies.