ETC 2015 comp army

[Hitsugaya Toushiro]

Vampire Lord (516pts) [Aura of Dark Majesty, Red Fury, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour, Lore of Vampires, Wizard Level 4]
····Magic Items [Nightshroud, Talisman of Preservation, The Other Trickster's Shard]

Master Necromancer (270pts) [Lore of Death, Wizard Level 4]
····Magic Items (100 pts) [Book of Arkhan, Obsidian Lodestone]

Necromancer (90pts) [Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Level 1]
····Magic Items (50 pts) [Dispel Scroll]

5x Dire Wolves (40pts)

5x Dire Wolves (40pts)

37x Skeleton Warriors (225pts)
····Command [Musician, Skeleton Champion]
········Standard Bearer [Banner of Eternal Flame]

39x Zombies (127pts)
····Command [Musician, Standard Bearer]

30x Zombies (100pts)
····Command [Musician, Standard Bearer]

20x Zombies (70pts)
····Command [Musician, Standard Bearer]

8x Crypt Horrors (304pts)

2x Fell Bats (32pts)

4x Morghast Archai (360pts)

Terrorgheist (225pts)

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I'd go Ogre Blade+Quickblood over Nightshroud+GW on the VL, drop the baby necro for a wight king with the nightshroud, and trade the book off the MN for a dispel scroll. You could drop the zombie bunker that way as well for some more direwolves, since the command + VL + wight king will be taking up the whole front rank. The morghasts should be good enough at punking out any BotWD units, if that's what youre concerned about on the VL.

I'd also drop banner of flame off the skeleton unit, and replace with either swiftness or the gleaming pennant.

 

[HugoMac]

Wow, it´s almost identical to the one i´ve been playing recently!

I agree with Pirate about the flamming banner, a typical lone hero with 2+ ward save against fire and you are screwed. I prefer swiftness anyday, that +1 movement is very underrated.

I usually take a cairn wraith, so the master necrodeath can be in the second rank, being in the first the skeleton´s command group, the vampire, and the ghost.

And if you wanna go in the ogre blade+quickblood way, remember that the master necro can still take the nightshroud...

PD: also the skeleton unit should be a little bigger, 5 more or so.

 

[Eternal flitter]

But the nightshroud only works if you're in btb and you don't want the MN in the front rank of your main combat block! I will second the nightshroud wight king option. On a 20mm base he's incredibly hard.

I also feel like a mortis engine would synergize really well with this list but I guess that would mean compromising on you're damage output in rare...

 

[Hitsugaya Toushiro]

thank you for tips but i'm missing how can i find points to add witch king, ogre blade,quickblood, 5 skelly etc....

...core is 601...morghast,horrors and terrorgheist are untouchable for me....so? i don't have even points for Beguile XD...
also remember that double vanhel dance (spell+book of arkhan) is very powerful because you can reroll with lord,horrors,morghast....also you add a lot of aggressivity with movement in magic phase....

i'm wondering if a ghoul king would be more offensive due to eternal hatred+red fury....but i would lose nightshroud....

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

@Hitsugaya Toushiro : Quickblood for AoDM is +5 points. Drop NS and GW and take OB saves you +10, or +5 in total.

Double vanhels is powerful, but not so much when one of those NEEDS to be on the Vampire Lord. A vampire lord without rerolls is easily 1/2 as effective as one with, given how RF works.

However the NS is more important. Thus my suggestion. A WK with Nightshroud and GW is 130 points. 140 if you give him a 3++ against Arcane Unforging. Dropping the baby necro nets you 90 points, the VL changes 5. So you only need to shave 35 points to squeeze in the WK. Fellbats is 32 points. You only need 3 more, unless you had a few points before.

That loses you some chaff, but without the two necros you can probably push the MN into the unit with the VL and drop the bunker for more wolves. 2x30 zombies, 1x40 skeletons, 4x5 wolves would fit, no?

 

[Hitsugaya Toushiro]

mmm interesting tomorrow i will do some calculation for those changes.....only regrets are:

- book of arkhan that is very powerful
-if i didn't miss something in your tips, i'm losing a lvl 1 wizard and so a nehek invocation...only 1 isn't enough maybe...
-against BOTWD of he, are morghast and horrors enough? ogre blade is magical...

tnx

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

mmm interesting tomorrow i will do some calculation for those changes.....only regrets are:

- book of arkhan that is very powerful
-if i didn't miss something in your tips, i'm losing a lvl 1 wizard and so a nehek invocation...only 1 isn't enough maybe...
-against BOTWD of he, are morghast and horrors enough? ogre blade is magical...

tnx

Never been much a fan of level 1s. Do you really have the dice to power two level 4s, and still throw 2 dice at invocation?

Quite honestly, I'd rather just have two level 4s on vampires in this list. Death is quite overrated IMHO.

Against BotWD...yeah the change is worse. But in literally every other matchup it's better. And as you mention, you still have two tools to deal with that unit. Worse case scenario you just lock it up with zombies and chaff all day. 30 zombies in a congaline should tak ea while to chew through.

 

[Hitsugaya Toushiro]

if you don't understand the power of death lore in etc metagame (and with terrorgheist) well....

however i tried your changes and it's ok (but no shield on lord for these 3pts)....but then i noticed how i'm losing:

-1 flying good chaff (bats) for a worse one (wolves)
-double vanhel dance
-1 nehek invoc.
-aura of dark majesty
-mundane atks against botwd

for what? rerolls for lord (not against asf opponents that aren't in base contact with witch king) when with double vanhel dance i can reroll as well?
mmmm i don't think it's enough for me...

 

[Eternal flitter]

I feel though that if your main point of contention is losing the extra invoc and vanhels that would be taking 3-4 dice out of a magic phase anyway, without them your level 4 death gets some more to play with.

I see where you're coming from about BotWD but in fairness if your VL is tooled to take it down your opponent will make sure you never get there. Additionally it's not an auto include, light council with alarielle, 25 white lions and a bucketload of archers is another way to go and they get a ward against mundane. Not to mention +8 to cast bubble Pha's... Either way I doubt infantry vamps can table either of these lists.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

if you don't understand the power of death lore in etc metagame (and with terrorgheist) well....

however i tried your changes and it's ok (but no shield on lord for these 3pts)....but then i noticed how i'm losing:

-1 flying good chaff (bats) for a worse one (wolves)
-double vanhel dance
-1 nehek invoc.
-aura of dark majesty
-mundane atks against botwd

for what? rerolls for lord (not against asf opponents that aren't in base contact with witch king) when with double vanhel dance i can reroll as well?
mmmm i don't think it's enough for me...

Oh, I know how strong death magic *can* be. On paper at least, or against a weak opponent, or when the dice are in your favour. However I've gone an entire tournament without death snipes doing a single wound. Or games where you don't get the dice those 2 turns you need the sun to go off, or your opponent scrolls or I double 6s the dispel.

Its a powerful lore, but its also a huge crutch.

And while D&D is great with a terrorgheist, I rarely ever find myself with a living terrorgheist past turn 2 anyway.


As for the rest, youre seriously underestimating the power of the full blender build. Asf+night shroud means you get rerolls against basically everything, but more importantly that you strike before everything. Blenders greatest defense is killing things before they can threaten him. Yours is going simo with everything, save asf stuff that goes first. Or demon steed chaos lords attacking out the second rank of a warrior brick with 5 S7 attacks (monstrous supporting).

Honestly, my feeling with your list is that its a bit scattered. You have lots of options for when things go right, but less for when things go wrong. I take the ogre blade because he can wreck shit if I lose my whole magic phase to an IF on two dice, or a hellheart, or ash storm. I take vampires because it has great synergy with the army. Much of that is personal preference, so your choice really. Just pointing out what I would change.

 

[HugoMac]

For the extra skellies, just make the 39 zombies a bit smaller. They can grow through the game, the skeletons not.

 

[Asmodeus]

And while D&D is great with a terrorgheist, I rarely ever find myself with a living terrorgheist past turn 2 anyway.

Good point. The only reason why i usually include TBat is that entire shooting is busy trying to bring him down. And if they wont make it....it is usually very messy. ETC have quite nice maps to hide his footprint.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Good point. The only reason why i usually include TBat is that entire shooting is busy trying to bring him down. And if they wont make it....it is usually very messy. ETC have quite nice maps to hide his footprint.

Yeah that's what mine is for as well. By the time he's dead the rest of my army ia in combat. Very important to draw heat off the bus when you're running bk

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Okay, so looking at your list again I am quite confident that dual level 4s on Vampires might actually be a really big boon to this list. Here's why:

1) You have BOTH a big unit of morghast archai AND a big unit of crypt horrors. A level 1 invocation isn't going to do much for that, but two level 4 invocations can bring 10 wounds back to both of those units in a single turn, plus 2 from lore attributes. That's HUGE. Not to mention all those zombie units you can be growing.

2) If you want to keep the baby necro, then I might suggest putting HIM on death instead. I don't think you have the dice generation to justify level 4s on both death and vampires (since death is a rather expensive lore), but a single LD10 spirit leech isn't a bad call.

Trouble here is the bunker. I think you would be much better off with the master necro in the skeleton brick with your vampire lord. Only catch is pushing him into the second rank. That's why I suggest the Wight King. Alternatively this can be done with a cairn wraith, though he's rather vulnerable against magic attacks.

3) Again...not such a big fan of your plan to sink so much into the AoDM+terrorgheist scream. Why? Because boltthrowers and cannons are on nearly all of the serious competitors in the field. You're really only on warriors who won't have some way to do damage to the tbat, and they're a good enough matchup for us anyways.

Damage means the scream is less effective, and can't be relied upon. The solution to that is to buff him up, but then you're focusing on your level 4 VL at the expense of your pricy level 4 death.

Two level 4s on vampires helps with this though. So many spells will keep that guy at full health. Yeah you lose out on D&D, but that's a must-dispel anyways.

4) If you do plan on going with your current strategy, I would strongly suggest dropping Book of Arkhan for the Black Periapt. You've got a lot of points sunk into magic with no really good way to fuel that. Pulling 2 dice from the dispel phase for your own magic phase is pretty wicked. As is saving 2 dice into the dispel phase when your opponent saves a fistful to dispel that Invocation you've been saving up. It's a fucking amazing item.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Death is great, but it's a crutch. You end up reliant on the dice to pull out a win for you, and it leaves you hanging around with your dick waving in the wind should the dice fail you. Which they do all. the. time. Not as big a deal in 20-0 as it is in WLD, but still an issue.

Vampires is a strong lore because you can spam every spell in the lore basically on 2 dice. And while it isn't earning you points, it's actively denying your opponent points. And with a big unit of crypt horrors and a big unit of archai, I think you can easily strike that proper balance between earning points and denying them using Vampires.

And really...when you're giving your opponent the choice between rerolls on 2 morghasts or no rerolls on 4 which are they going to pick? That's actually a really tough choice...

 

[Eternal flitter]

I know you don't like it pirate but why not a mortis engine with BT instead of the T-bat if you're going that route? Only have the MN in range to get +6 to cast and then don't risk the damage on the VL. If people shoot at the engine it has a good chance of saving on it's regen unlike the T-bat and it synergises SO well with what we're aiming for here. I love them like the next vamp but in a points denial list it's a really easy 225 to get.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

ME would indeed have some pretty good synergy in this list. My concern would be giving up something that's putting in work screaming at things in exchange for yet another magic/synergy piece. It's also not as obvious a threat, so suddenly your opponent is actually *thinking* about what to shoot rather than just automatically dumping it all into the T-bat.

In that case I would *definitely* drop the book for the periapt, though. 2 extra dice with +2 to cast is mental in a denial list.

Personally, I'd still rather have the TBat though. Crutch or not, they're a very powerful psychological tool. That 28" threat range can really push a tired opponent into making some very poor choices. Especially when you're talking game 3 or 4 on the same day, or against hungover opponents early second day. People just ignore mortis engines, unless they have an easy way to pick up their points (<cough> skullcannons <cough>).

 

[Eternal flitter]

Yep I do get you (but this is the ETC what skullcannons? ) about the lack of threats, however while your engine lives your tough/huge blocks are even tougher.

In this list I would pick the engine over the T-bat every time. Ignore the engine at your own cost when it picks up all the chaff over the course of the game. And 4+ regen crypt horrors are infinitely better than with 5+ saves in tankiness.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Yep I do get you (but this is the ETC what skullcannons? :tongue: ) about the lack of threats, however while your engine lives your tough/huge blocks are even tougher.

In this list I would pick the engine over the T-bat every time. Ignore the engine at your own cost when it picks up all the chaff over the course of the game. And 4+ regen crypt horrors are infinitely better than with 5+ saves in tankiness.

Haha. But the fewer the cannons, the more powerful the bat becomes

I can see the sense from a denial perspective, but again...the concern is earning points. It's no good protecting points if you're not earning anything, and the list becomes rather reliant on magic all of a sudden. Tbat screams shit off on his own, and the longer he's allowed to live the more damage he can do. Big fan of the bat (though I would never take two).

Definitely in agreement on the power of 4+ regen on the CH though. 5+ is frustratingly mediocre when it comes to saves. Have gone whole tournaments without making a single one.

 

[Eternal flitter]

This view is maybe not directly on topic but I guess also in a team environment you'd pick the engine since a foot vamps player's job would be to not lose against the matchup no-one else wanted to face... Try and play the king of the hill if possible maybe grind out a 12-8 loss most games... Sounds like a great weekend

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

This view is maybe not directly on topic but I guess also in a team environment you'd pick the engine since a foot vamps player's job would be to not lose against the matchup no-one else wanted to face... Try and play the king of the hill if possible maybe grind out a 12-8 loss most games... Sounds like a great weekend :tongue:

Haha. We're bringing one of those to a team tournament in July. We're subsidizing his beer fund in exchange for him sticking half his demon army in a portal glyph and playing keepaway with the rest.

I didn't get the sense that OP was playing in a team tourney, though? For a singles event I'd rather have the Tbat. Just gives you more options.

 

[Eternal flitter]

Hence why I prefaced my last post with "this may not be directly on topic". Yeah I agree but even with the T-bat foot vamps have a hard time winning big in 20-0 unless they get perfect matchups every game, and the more you win, the more elves you'll get :tongue:

 

[Hitsugaya Toushiro]

well:

1)i will not take mortis because i don't have it .,i hate it and i prefer terrorgheist i in this list....yeah he is vulnerable but is always a pain in the ass for opponent....i don't know the meta in your country but here in italy the meta is full of cavalry bus,dragons/DP,steam tanks,chaos mounted heroes,mino lords,demons with beasts/flies/DP etc.
terrorgheist is very powerful in this meta with 28" menace....and if they concentrate at him everything else would be safe.
also ETC tables have a lot of hills/impassable in the center that help hiding him

2)i play this list both single/team enviroment

3)death in italian meta full of characters/monsters/units that suffertpurple sun/D&D so death is always a winner and is in every VC list....in offensive way he can kill a lot with sniping/purple sun/tbat+d&d but the most power is casting d&d in combat (where you usually win) and making opponent flee even if stubborn.


4)yesterday i tried a risky variation of my list to be more aggressive and not having problems with master necro in front rank so killable....
...1st match against beasts with 2 mino lords with WS 3+ and 1 mino hero with WS 4+ was very good...won only 12-8 due to bad dice and some little errors.

Vampire Lord (450pts) [Great Weapon, Lore of Vampires, Red Fury, Wizard Level 3]
····Magic Items [AB - Nightshroud, BRB - Talisman of Preservation, BRB - The Other Trickster's Shard]

Vampire Lord (460pts) [Great Weapon, Lore of Death, Red Fury, Wizard Level 4]
····Magic Items [BRB - Armour of Destiny, BRB - Dispel Scroll]

Dire Wolves (40pts) [5x Dire Wolf]

Dire Wolves (40pts) [5x Dire Wolf]

Dire Wolves (40pts) [5x Dire Wolf]

Skeleton Warriors (235pts) [39x Skeleton Warrior]
····Command [Musician, Skeleton Champion]
········Standard Bearer [BRB - Banner of Eternal Flame]

Zombies (124pts) [38x Zombie]
····Command [Musician, Standard Bearer]

Zombies (121pts) [37x Zombie]
····Command [Musician, Standard Bearer]

Crypt Horrors (304pts) [8x Crypt Horror]

Morghast Archai (360pts) [4x Morghast Archai]

Terrorgheist (225pts)

 

[najo]

One, I am a big proponent of Great Weapons on Vampire Lords. Makes short work of a lot of things and saves points for other magic items. I've had elf players morale just crushed when my blender tears through the BotWD unit. Its absolutely hilarious.

Two, Mortis Engines are more reliable than T-bats overall. They are tricky to learn to use well, but once you get them down they can be very powerful. The trick is make sure the are up in the fight and keep them alive until late game. If you play MSU though, be mindful of your position around them, but horde infantry armies can easily survive a Mortis Engine blowing up while your opponent won't.

Army looks solid btw. With how many wounds and infantry models you have, you can forgo the Dispel Scroll and replace it with Book of Arkhan or Black Periapt and get more mileage out of your magic phases. Powerful tricks in both of those items that are by far greater than the one shot Dispel Scroll, especially when you can afford to take damage.