Fast VC+Combat Freaks VC

[Regis Von Carstein]

By the way, +1 for not wanting to play traditional lists. I am the same. If someone tells me that there is something in our army book that is a "must have" and a "nasty combo", I try to avoid it. For me peronally, I never give GG great weapons. They are always sword and board for me. Partially because everyone seems to like them in Horde with GW and partially because I have the 6th ed sword an board models (60!) which I really like. I don't take 2 TG. Again, partially because everyone says it's a nasty combo, and partially because I don't feel like buying and painting another identical model. I am also not a fan of deathstars.

 

[Grok]

There are limits to how many of the same Special and Rare choice you can have, but nothing limits the same choices of core. Some events; however, put comp in place that limits this, so maybe this is what you were thinking about.

 

[Regis Von Carstein]

Seems kind of cheesy to spam like that

 

[countwuzzy]

Me bringing 8 units of 5 wolves, is cheesy? It very well may be. I really like dire wolves.

But I'm forced to bring so many. Most armies and generals I play don't advance their force at all. A lot of times they deploy 30" from my deployment line. And just shoot spells and arrows.

The reason I take 8 units instead of 1-3 big ones. Is target saturation. I want all their range units and spells to have to choose betwen the vanguard movment 9 wolves that are in their face my turn 1. Or choose to shoot something more important.

Looks like I am the cheesiest man in The world..... Good thing I like cheese.

The thing is, I play different then most. I also play to win. Taking 8 units of wolves.( if I had more I would bring more) is not a game changer, but does play a big role in my divide and conquer strategy.

There are many many other things in the game that deserve to called cheese more so.

 

[Regis Von Carstein]

I meant no offense fellow vampire, I just spamming is cheesy. My HE opponent takes 6 repeater bolt throwers... that is very cheesy. I know it is effective tactic. But spamming 8 identical units... i don't know. There should be a cap on things like this. TBH, I would love to see my HE opponents face when his six bolt throwers face 8 units of wovles plus other things

 

[Grok]

I don't really think its too cheesy. No cheesier then say 2 units of skullcrushers ect.

 

[Eternal Salvation]

Hey guys,

I'd love to wade in here after being in the GW shop alot instead of on the board.

<begin rant>
I've been struggling with VC for a while now, trying to play balanced lists, or lists heavy on the attrition with big units of infantry backed by strong magic. However, over and over again I find magic to be unreliable, or just over points-spent (like more points =/= better magic).

So I tried going the other way, and ended up where some others are here; I run a lvl 1 blender lord on a skeletal steed who can join a unit of 10 BKs or 5 Bloods. I take a unit of hex wraiths, some vargeists, a TG, a vargulf, some bats, etc. ALL wolves for core, inc. a unit of 20 for rank disruption, and a unit of 10 to bunker my ONE lvl 1 necro (who I think actually needs to be lvl 2).

My feeling was that I wasn't getting my money's worth of points building chars first (mostly for magic), then core, spec, rare. Instead I went the other way and saw how much I had left for chars in a fast hitty list. And I've been having lots of success with it, just like Countwuzzy.

All the drops of wolves at the start lets me pick which flank to stack and ram all my hitty flyers and cav down one side while wolves tie up the other flank and mid. I don't need magic except to bring back a few cav and heal the vamp once in a while. I'm still getting the same number of dice with two level 1s as with a 4 and a bunch of 2s, but now instead I throw a large number of dice at one IoN, and a smaller number at the other, usually 4 and/or 6, which is all my dice on two spells anyway.. I don't have need or use for more casters (except the the odd turn here and there where everything alive is at max because my savvy opponent concentrates fire at one unit at a time).

It's great too because everything important is usually in combat by turn 2, and that's where it needs to be instead of being destroyed by archers, mages, warmachines, etc. So the only healing I need to do is on stuff with a 2+ or 1+ AS (so not much) and, well, often the vargeists die if they have to make an less than ideal frenzy charge.. But the whole idea of tons of infantry dying and tons coming back... well they always die, but they don't always come back, and they give TONS of combat rez.. which I can almost never overcome with any kind of bus against anything with a decent armour save that I wouldn't just charge in the front with my killy unit anyway!!

So all and all, I second this style, and find it to be very effective. Get your drops, load your flank, and get in combat by turn 2 while they are dealing with wolves. Then just keep multi-charging stuff and overfunning till the end of the game. Only consideration is if you get tower, in which case it's nice to have an anvil...

<end rant>

 

[Regis Von Carstein]

Good post Eternal. I will say this: Everything depends on the meta game. In my gaming group, we have the following armies: Empire, HE, Chaos Warriors, Lizardmen, Dwarfs, Beastmen, Orcs.

Taking a ton of wolves is extremely useful against Empire, HE and Dwarfs, but they are not that good against Lizardmen, Chaos or Beastmen. If you face another army that is bent on CC, you will probably lose as our army can't go toe-to-toe against heavy hitters from other armies without magic support. I say this because as you have noticed, our core is crap. They are only good because we can Invo them back. But imagine playing Lizardmen or Chaos who have awesome Core units. They will bring to the fight a lot of hard hitting units.

Wolves are probably our best core option, and if I had the models I would probably bring a minimum of 20 (if not 30) in my list. Their vanguard move ABSOLUTELY ROCKS.

Having 2 level 1's is OK sometimes, but if you face a Slann, you will really regret not having that 4+ to dispel.

One piece of advice I can give is if you go with 2 level 1's, take a few bound spells. (cursed book is awesome in this setup).

 

[Eternal Salvation]

Hey Regis,

I hear you on the bound spells, I hadn't thought about the book, and that's a great idea. I was also thinking lvl 2 because those turns where everything is healed it's nice to not just end the magic phase with all dice.. But that would also mean I can't have a scroll since the lord is kitted out with +2A or +2S, 4+ WS, and enchanted sheild.

I actually often play against Lizzies, as there are three players in my area who take them, and I find that they fall fast enough when combine charged by two units of knights or knights w lord and vargeists. Chaos is another matter, however, and I have yet to play dwarves!

Don't forget, the main point of dogs in lists like the ones under discussion is mainly to make sure that 75% of your army is engaging 25% of theirs while 25% of yours is tying up the rest of theirs (what ever is left, haha:devil2 (oh and to put down drops at the start so you can pick your flank). If they can kill something like war machines (or preferably mages, since warmachines shouldn't have any targets anyway!), then that's great! Honestly, I pretty much never charge with my dogs. I just move them 1" in front on the corner away from my loaded flank so that in order for the enemy to move they have to clip, slide over to maximize, and then reform, thus pulling them away from the action (actually I feel it's a little cheesy, but it's nice to be winning again). I even find that more than a few opponents just sit there for a turn or two not wanting to charge out of position, while the bulk of my army comes for their flank, though I guess they will wisen up soon!

 

[mr. dude]

Don't forget, the main point of dogs in lists like the ones under discussion is mainly to make sure that 75% of your army is engaging 25% of theirs while 25% of yours is tying up the rest of theirs

Summed up my wargaming life with that one sentence. Or at least, my wargaming life over the past year.

The idea is that this army should be fast enough to take down the ranged armies before they get to do too much damage, and big enough to overwhelm chunks of more dedicated combat armies one at a time while holding up the rest.

Or something like that. This is me applying my LotR experience to Fantasy, hopefully I'll start getting proper Fantasy experience soon enough.

 

[mr. dude]

Alright, been playing with Battlescribe over the last few weeks, and here's what I've put together based on what I own (2500 points):

LORD:
I can do VL or SGK, I was even thinking about a ZD, but ultimately I like the idea of a level 4 blender on Hellsteed.

HERO:
Baby Blender on CT. Level 2 wizard of some sort. Question: What lore would you give such a vampire? I know the idea tends to be to try and synergize with Battle of Wills, but I don't trust it enough to build an entire strategy around it. Does one of the lores help more with the blending side of things?

Necromancer, level 1 LoV, just to serve as backup in case the Lord explodes (I'm still using the VC book, no Undead for me yet)

CORE:
-5x5 Wolves, 50 Skeletons (full command, banner of swiftness), 2x20 Zombies (2 upgrades between them)
-2x5 Wolves, 40 Ghouls, 2x20 Zombies (3 upgrades between them)
-Some combination of the 2. I suppose more Wolves work better with this list, especially that I have no way of keeping Ghouls safe (Mortis Engines), so I guess I like the first option more, but option 2 remains alluring.

SPECIAL:
Options are: Vargheists, Hexwraiths, Morghasts. I can fit 2 units of 3 Vargs (each with Champion), then a unit of 5 Hexies (no champ). After that, 2 Morghasts cost the same as 5 Hexies+Champ, and I can fit them. Morghasts look stupidly tough and capable of dealing damage, so I am tempted. Thoughts?

RARE:
Varghulf. Done.




Comes out to approximately 2500 depending on what specific equipment I go for.





Opinions? I rarely like posting exact lists since each player differs, but I'm new enough that I suppose I need to.

 

[najo]

Hey all! I joined a few years ago, having fallen for VC. Two years down the line, I think I've bought a couple of models, maybe watched a bunch of BatReps, but I've yet to play a game and I don't even have a proper army yet. Recently, some Nagash related events have sparked my interest again, so let's see if I follow through with it this time around.

Before I get into my post, because I have a tendency to ramble about nothing, I'll pose my question flat out: Does anyone have experience with this sort of playing style? What tips can you offer me? I'm looking to play standard game sizes.


It's hard to describe what I want, so while I think of that, let me talk about what I don't want. In my 10 years of wargaming, I've always tried to avoid the most popular models where possible. Here, that means I've got a self-imposed restriction on TGs and BK Buses. I also don't enjoy the Deathstar style, so I try to avoid that where possible. Finally, since I'm still new to the game, I'll steer clear of the Undead Legion for now and just focus on pure VC.

Okay, writing that didn't take long enough, let's see, what is the army I'm after...
Basically, I want to be in my opponent's face from the start. The way I imagine it, the army consists of two halves: Clan In-Your-Face and Clan Mop-Up-Crew. Clan In-Your-Face is all the fast guys, their job is, I suppose, to unsettle and not allow my opponent to whittle down Clan Mop-Up-Crew. They need high damage output, I can see a need for fast chaff (or easy access to Raise Dead so I can bring up Zombies exactly where I need them), and they need to be able to last at least until Clan Mop-Up-Crew gets in. Clan Mop-Up-Crew is there to simply win by attrition.

The units that seem to make sense to me so far are:
Vargheists (lots of them for In-Your-Face)
Dogs
Black and Blood Knights both look good here, provided I can run either of them without contradicting my restrictions (so, Black Knights without being a bus for my blender and Blood without being a deathstar). Or would they be too small and weak if I don't run them the common ways?

Clan Mop-Up-Crew could be built in many ways, all I know is that I want a Coven Throne Vamp Hero in there (which I'm given to think I can afford with all the other target saturation I plan to have going). I still don't know how I plan to get my VL/SGK in there yet. So, this one here is open to suggestions.



Just looking at this post, my ideas look very spread out. It almost looks like I'm saying I want one of each unit in the army. So, any thoughts on this? Thank you in advance my darlings

I specifically play armies that are aggressive, foot slogging and don't play with terrorgiests or black knight buses. I've got allot of experience in competitive play and a good win/lose ratio with that play style. If you want any pointers or specific questions that the thread hasn't addressed, just let me know.

 

[mr. dude]

Thanks for that najo. I think, for now, I've got two prevalent question. First is, have I got enough target saturation? Are people distracted enough by Vargheists and Varghulf and the like that my VL and CT are safe-ish? Otherwise, I just got me a set of Blood Knights (well, Chaos Knights+some other bitz) to help with that.

Then it becomes a matter of, do I have enough to deal with the really big stuff? From a complete newbie's perspective, it looks like I have enough things that can plow through infantry, but how suited is my army for the monsters and big lords (the things other people would opt to scream at)?