hello ive been playing with vc for about 2 years and ive gotten a pretty good feel for the way the army plays. with the old 6th ed rules though ive never even considered using fell bats they just didnt appeal to me or even seem like they were worth the points. but now with the new rules and everything being healable i thought id give them a try and since they count as infantry you can raise d6 more than their starting size with the appropriate power. so my question is do you think they are worth it for an all-comers list or are they mostly situationaly effective and how do you normally use them.
Fell Bats
- Thread starter slayer666
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As a reasonably priced flying unit with two wounds a piece, fell bats make for great march blockers and for catching fleeing enemy units.
Also, since they're undead they cause fear which can be a nice little asset when your enemy decides to try and engage them in close combat, heheh. It also means that they're unable to flee from charges though, which can be negative.
I've never used them together with their mastery power but I usually fly them straight towards either large and powerful infantry units or monsters such as hydras, in an attempt at keeping them away from the rest of my army for as long as possible. They can also engage smallish missile units and lone wizards. I'd say that they are indeed a worthy addition to an all-comers list.
Also, since they're undead they cause fear which can be a nice little asset when your enemy decides to try and engage them in close combat, heheh. It also means that they're unable to flee from charges though, which can be negative.
I've never used them together with their mastery power but I usually fly them straight towards either large and powerful infantry units or monsters such as hydras, in an attempt at keeping them away from the rest of my army for as long as possible. They can also engage smallish missile units and lone wizards. I'd say that they are indeed a worthy addition to an all-comers list.
Fell Bats are great for dumping right behind an enemy army. A full unit of ten has an absolutely massive footprint and will devour enemies that flee through it, and can quite happily remove, say, one of the two threatening units you're likely to see in an Ogre army from the game by march-blocking the hell out of it.
Kaptain Von said:
That's really interesting. I had thought of them mostly as march blockers / warmachine hunters, but the idea of using them to "net" fleeing troops is very cool.
You mention a unit of 10. Is there a consensus on the best unit size?
Also, is it worth taking Summon Creatures of the Night when using felbats and other beasties? I like the idea, but fear that they are not going to stay close enough to the vampire to get healed/boosted.
-Silent Requiem
I have found fell bats to be one of the best, more versatile units available, especially for core choice troops. I use them for all of the above, march blocking, artillery crew hunting and (best of all) snaring fleeing units - which there should always be plenty of before a good VC force 
However I have found that creatures of the night the power becomes redundant (at least in the middle portion of the game) for, as Silent Requiem says, the caster is too far from the target unit. Therefore, when points allow, I take up to 5 bats per unit and take lord of the dead instead, which always seesm useful
However I have found that creatures of the night the power becomes redundant (at least in the middle portion of the game) for, as Silent Requiem says, the caster is too far from the target unit. Therefore, when points allow, I take up to 5 bats per unit and take lord of the dead instead, which always seesm useful
I have only ran Fell Bats once, but I am definitely going to use them in lists that I don't want / need to have both GG and BK. (Fell Bats are special choice, Bat Swarm being the core counterpart.) If I can replace one Direwolf scout unit with the fell bats, I feel pretty good. The increased attacks, flight over units, and extra wounds is pretty studly. I am a bit put off on their size as I still want to run it 5 wide, so when they do get into combat they don't offer a lot of room to manuever around for additional chargers.
The list I am using now has a Lord (w/Helm) on Abyssal Terror leading the fell bats and a unit of Cairn Wraiths down one flank opposite a varghulf that is marching a unit of BK's and Wight King. I think Fell bats are a pretty interesting unit and I also have ignored them much of the last year.
The list I am using now has a Lord (w/Helm) on Abyssal Terror leading the fell bats and a unit of Cairn Wraiths down one flank opposite a varghulf that is marching a unit of BK's and Wight King. I think Fell bats are a pretty interesting unit and I also have ignored them much of the last year.
My favorite tactic with Fell bats is to run a Vamp hero w/ Flying horror and Summ creatures and armed with SoM and Armor of night. Gives him a -3 to hit for any missles and S6 attacks. Really beefs up that unit of bats and gives your opponent something to think about. Can't be having a vampire flying around behind your lines with a bat unit that keeps getting bigger....
Or sometimes I'll swap out SoM for Tal of Lycni if I want a different power than Flying. That way he can still keep up with the bats and still do something nasty (ie-super horror, dark aco for 3 summons, avatar for those S7hits)
Or sometimes I'll swap out SoM for Tal of Lycni if I want a different power than Flying. That way he can still keep up with the bats and still do something nasty (ie-super horror, dark aco for 3 summons, avatar for those S7hits)
Vs low ld horde armies, take 6 fell bats and cast terror on them. move them up and start forcing alot of terror tests. do it and by 2nd turn they are still very close to their board edge and may run off.
spla5hmummy
Ghoul
With Midean's combo, the unit itself won't be causing Terror because characters cannot join flying units, even if they're capable of flight themselves.
And yes, both Lore of Shadows and Lore of Death can give them Terror.
Meaning if you want the bats themselves to cause Terror, field Mannfred as your Lord, or take Forbidden Lore (Death or Shadows).
And yes, both Lore of Shadows and Lore of Death can give them Terror.
Meaning if you want the bats themselves to cause Terror, field Mannfred as your Lord, or take Forbidden Lore (Death or Shadows).
You are right, Kindred. The bats themselves won't cause terror, but their vamp batty-sitter will.
Silent Requiem said:
Your casters will be too far away often. Though if in range and the chance permits it to add more to them, feel free. They can always suffer casualties.
Silent Requiem said:
In contrary of what most people think, these creatures count as US 1 (and not 2!). This means if you want to kill enemy fleeing units, you need to take 5 at least. It's a pricey investment for what you actually get fighting-wise (seriously they aren't that great fighters at all, despite 2W). Their role as march blockers/catching fleeing units is a good one, but not overused.
Take minimum size if you want to march block. Take 5 for both/catching units. 10 Seems a bit over the top to me (looks a bit silly on the battlefield too. Kaptain Von suggests spreading them out as much as you can ruleswise ~ 1 inch I think).
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I don't know who mentioned this, but someone said they're Core choice. Which is not true (bat swarms are). Fell Bats are their big brothers as a Special Choice.
manaknight
Ghoul
I field them quite often, and mainly with their summon power in one of the vampire heroes. By turn two the starting three are normaly 6 after invocations, and can prevent units from fleeing and distract other flyers and even monsters.
In fact, I'd say that they are a good choice, but mind you that sending them against archers, light cavarly or other "weak" units is a waste, they tend to be badly defeated in close combat. Their job is stopping marches, pursuing units that have been routed or tarpiting fast units (with the summon power). And all for 60+15 points!
In fact, I'd say that they are a good choice, but mind you that sending them against archers, light cavarly or other "weak" units is a waste, they tend to be badly defeated in close combat. Their job is stopping marches, pursuing units that have been routed or tarpiting fast units (with the summon power). And all for 60+15 points!
manaknight said:
Yes, very cheap. Good tactic if you want to keep options open. March Blocking/harassing is always good. I mean, against an all comers list, they either march block or get shot down. Either way, they're useful. At least you protect the more important units from enemy fire!
MasterSpark said:
+ wasn't there a rule preventing a character giving it's fear/terror to the unit?
I could be mistaken, but I thought when a character has terror/stupidity/hatred/fear/etc, it doesn't give it to the unit (and henceforth no-one has to take a terror/fear test). Could be a 6th edition rule that got scrapped in 7th.
MV is right - the character cannot join a unit of flyers and thus cannot pass their terror directly along to them. However if you have the flying vampire in close proximity then the point is moot as the test will still apply. You wil just have to remember to measure for the range from the vamp. You also need to remember, that even if you charge the vamp and the bats in, against a fear causing enemy only the vamp is taken into consideration for outnumbering due to Fear (due to causing terror), not the bats as well.