Fighting a Bloodletter Horde

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Vipoid

Necromancer
Apr 27, 2012
873
Zombies
688
One of my friends uses a horde of about 50 bloodletters, plus a herald for hatred. I'm looking for ways to beat said horde.

I've been advised that crypt horrors might work, but I haven't used them before, so I'm interested in what unit size people would recommend.

In addition, is there anything else that might work against that unit?
 
First, realize that said 50 Bloodletters + Herald are costing your opponent roughly 800 points assuming Full Command and obligatory Banner of Additional D6 Charge, plus some gear on Mr. Herald.

With that in mind, 10 Crypt Horrors, 5x2, cost half that, and will put a serious hurt on them, but NOT stand up to them and win the combat alone if the opponent is at full strength.

The BLs in Horde will do on average 25-26 hits with the Hatred, half of those which will wound, and IF the Herald either doesn't have Firestorm Blade, OR doesn't do a Wound ahead of the Horde's Init, you save 1/3 or 1/2 with ME. This means you take anywhere between 6 - 13 wounds, depending on the above variables.

Assuming the worst, you lose 4 Horrors, meaning 6 strike back with 18 attacks, doing 9 hits (3 poisons), 4 of the 6 wound, and 1/3 of the 4 are Warded away, leaving you with ~5 wounds inflicted. 5 Stomps probably add another 1-2 wounds, meaning in a worst-case scenario, your opponent does 12-13 wounds, you do about 7, and lose combat by another 6-8 depending on his static CR.

As you can see, NOT a good result. Now, assuming no Firestorm or no Flaming wounds, you suffer 4 fewer wounds, and also gain an extra 3 attacks from the not-dead CH, which say if you're lucky adds 1 more wound. This means you go from losing 12 - 7 on wounds, to 8 - 8, and only lose by Combat Res. A much better result, and sets you up wonderfully for a counter-charge, Invoking, or Buffing in Magic.

Here's the BIG key - do NOT charge them. Let them charge you, which they will / have to, to earn points. Just march up your CHs in front of them, and let him charge. This gives you only 1 combat on his turn, before you get a Magic Phase to buff up and heal the Horrors. You could charge, and hope to get a buff on your turn, but then you need to survive 2 full combats before you get a chance of healing the Horrors and risk losing the entire unit this way.

Again, the Horrors clock in at less than half the 50 BLs + Herald, so don't be disheartened if they don't smoke them. Their job is to survive the initial punch, throw an equal punch back, and grind them down in subsequent turns once the Hatred wears off. Hopefully you can get a supporting unit like Ghouls into the Flank on your turn, but if not, try your best to Invoke / Vanhels the Horrors, or Soulblight the Letters. Also, even if the Horrors die, a 40-man Ghoul unit should be able to take down the surviving Bloodletters, who should be somewhere under half-strength after the CH battle.

Obviously, a Mortis Engine also adds to your odds in this situation, as your Regen gets better, and you also cause some minimal damage to him via Reliquary.

At the end of the day, Demons are tough BECAUSE Bloodletters are so underpriced, but hopefully the new book changes this soon. It's also part of the reason Crypt Horrors, and double Crypt Horrors, were so prevalent at ETC!

- Larry
 
I feel this should be Larry's signature since I've said it so many times by now: Larry hit the spot, yet again.

Go 12 CH with dual engines to back them up... that will hurt the BL's badly(assuming no firestorm blade) since the Aura from the ME's also put the hurt on his BL's(who has puny T3 and only 5++ which makes them a prime target for the MEs) on top of that you throw some screams at that horde and suddenly tables turned. Oh yeah and your CH gets raised right back up while his daemons stay dead.
 
Right. My preferred strategy would DEFINITELY be to chaff them to death, since again he's got 800+ points in 1 brick. 3 units of Bats, fast Core Dire Wolves, Spirit Hosts at a beneficial angle forcing him only to reform and not overrun, ALL are great options. My first response was only if this is a "I MUST fight them" situation.

- Larry
 
Lol could just use 2 hero wraiths, 1 inch away about 3 guys in both sides angle team so the door can't be shut, which will either force the herald out or hold up a charge turn or two and make his framers. Shot at a 60 pt model.... If your lucky he might charge a herald out of the hoard and it is open scream season on a herald. Very cheesy but works.... Pretty much a high elf and wood elf tactics with eagles
 
Quick question regarding the CH and ME idea - doesn't the ME's aura max out at a 4+ regeneration, therefore making their buffs in this situation pretty useless.
 
@Static-Breed, if someone is fielding two engines, then they have some insurance in case one of the gets taken out (thus, the CH's regen save will have a better chance of staying at 4+).
Keep in mind that the buff(s) will be on all of your units within range. Just one engine is enough to do some damage in an army (nevermind the fact that it boosts your magic phase with the tome if you bring it).
 
LoL yeah we have lots of ways to deal with that horde. I was going to suggest Rod of Flaming death, cursed book, screams a-plenty, curse of years. As many unit effecting spells as we can throw, even Winds of Death or Purple sun if you have a death caster. I was also going to suggest a 60-some unit of zombies, which is so cheap, and then just walk around with any of the aforementioned spells/screams and see how that works out. I agree that horrors would also be very tough and hand back some pain. Also, if the horrors survive, they can help mop up any other pesky units.
 
Most times the herald will have flaming blade. Mine never leaves home with out for the exact reason of going first and taking off reg for the rest of the boys to wail away. Make sure to take him out FIRST!
 
snipe the herald or take him out in the first round of combat and then you suddenly have 800 points of T3 ememies with a single attack that costs 6 skaven slaves each.

Every large unit in the warhammer world will kill a bunch of daemon core. They are good when they can kill a lot of expensive stuff by going first with relatively high S attacks but if they are fighting unbreakable zombies who cares.
 
You can't put your characters up against the herald. I'd say crypt horrors backed up with level 4 Ion spam, engine regen boost and maybe even signature beast spell for +1 star and tgh. At the very least, 4x2 horrors with IoN will hold and eventually kill the unit without much hassle. Herald will die by round 2. Allow them to charge you and a vanhels reroll doesn't hurt either.

Also, I've killed a unit of letters like that with zombies before. Go five wide and as deep as you want. Support with IoN. The blood letters will eventually die, just as stated above. This also allows you to avoid them with your other units.

Whatever you do though, do not put your elite units up against that. Either anvil with horrors or tarpit with zombies. ghouls could work, but their delicate against rerolled str 5 attacks and cost 3x the cost of zombies for only five extra str 3 attacks. Here their poison and t4 doesn't help as much. The ghouls are more useful fighting other daemon units.

Also, rereading the thread, everything Larro said is spot on. Using both his techniques together, chafe the letters than flank them with crypt horrors. Horrors will take little punishment, they will disrupt the letters for a turn and not crumble as their combat result will even out. Then they last through the herald making way to them. On your turn you heal them up with IoN and lore attribute. Dead letters in a couple turns.
 
Looks like chaff or Anvil is the way to go then.

I'll probably try zombies for now, since I don't currently own any crypt horrors (although I'm hoping to acquire some soon).

If I do manage to get some crypt horrors, then it could be interesting, since my opponent never gives his herald the flame blade (he prefers Soul Hunger and the 3+ armour save).

Thanks for all the responses guys. xD
 
Once u pwn his letters with CHs, he'll never leave home with the firestorm blade.

And that's when you begin taking a lvl 1 necro on death to spirit leech him :)
 

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