Simple question,does Killing Blow work on Pegasus knights?My guess was and still is NO,but some people told me otherwise so I'd like to be sure.
Flying Horsieee trouble....
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Feast4Crows
Skeleton
On page 7 of the FAQ for the BRB, it states that if a mounted model would normally be considered infantry, then yes they can be affected by killing blow.
My son plays Bretonnians and this has been an issue for him.
My son plays Bretonnians and this has been an issue for him.
Vampire Count
Ghoul
Well to be fair, normal knights don't have 'the option of being run on foot',! But yeah, you can't KB monstrous cavalry.
Feast4Crows
Skeleton
Here's the argument where we play, Pegasus knights and a character mounted on a Pegasus both are considered monstrous cavalry. So my son had been playing it as they couldn't be affected by killing blow. The current FAQ on page 7 states:
"Q: Does Killing Blow work against a mounted character regardless of what he is mounted on?
A: Yes, as long as the character would count as an infantry model if it wasn't mounted."
So, it can be argued that a Bretonnian character mounted on a Pegasus could be the target of killing blow as he is an infantry model. I don't have the BRB with me to check in the back and see if it actually splits a Pegasus knight's profile. If it does and the knight is listed as infantry, then yes even the Pegasus knight units would be subject to it according to the FAQ. I agree that the BRB makes it seem pretty clear that monstrous cavalry can't be targeted, but the FAQ makes it arguable. In reality, why would it be possible to target a rider on something huge, like a dragon, but you can't hit a guy on a horse with wings? Our interpretation is according to the FAQ and a little common sense. If a character can be targeted due to the change by the FAQ, then the unit should be subjected to the same change.
"Q: Does Killing Blow work against a mounted character regardless of what he is mounted on?
A: Yes, as long as the character would count as an infantry model if it wasn't mounted."
So, it can be argued that a Bretonnian character mounted on a Pegasus could be the target of killing blow as he is an infantry model. I don't have the BRB with me to check in the back and see if it actually splits a Pegasus knight's profile. If it does and the knight is listed as infantry, then yes even the Pegasus knight units would be subject to it according to the FAQ. I agree that the BRB makes it seem pretty clear that monstrous cavalry can't be targeted, but the FAQ makes it arguable. In reality, why would it be possible to target a rider on something huge, like a dragon, but you can't hit a guy on a horse with wings? Our interpretation is according to the FAQ and a little common sense. If a character can be targeted due to the change by the FAQ, then the unit should be subjected to the same change.
Feast4Crows
Skeleton
So by the absolute letter of the rules, a character mounted on a Pegasus, which is then monstrous cavalry, can be affected by killing blow, but a Pegasus knight, which is also monstrous cavalry, can't be, because it's not a character. That makes GW sense. I don't play in tournaments, so I'm not sure what the common tournament ruling is. We interpret the rule, as I said, with a bit of common sense, something that sometimes gets overlooked during development and not always fixed with errata.
I agree with you on common sense and household rulings. But household rulings do not answer rules questions in competitive play. Thus for this question the generic answer is no
from a tournament point of view this is pretty clear cut where I live.
character on peg - yes KB works
peg knights - monsterous cav - no KB.
character on peg - yes KB works
peg knights - monsterous cav - no KB.
This ruling always struck me as a bit stupid.
Can I kill a peg knight with KB? No!
Can I kill 350 points worth of mounted character on a "insert overpriced mount here" with KB? Yes!
Ermm. why? What? Qeh?
Thankfully we are free to make our own rules, tournaments apply restrictions that the rules do not, you are free to house rule whatever suits you and your opponent.
Obviously the written answer is a clear "yes" to characters on mounts. But unless your in a GW store, or at a tournament there really is no issue with playing as you please, beyond agreeing with your opponents beforehand.
GW also shoot themselves in the foot with these crazy rulings, the answers should be yes or no, not maybe, depends
Can I kill a peg knight with KB? No!
Can I kill 350 points worth of mounted character on a "insert overpriced mount here" with KB? Yes!
Ermm. why? What? Qeh?
Thankfully we are free to make our own rules, tournaments apply restrictions that the rules do not, you are free to house rule whatever suits you and your opponent.
Obviously the written answer is a clear "yes" to characters on mounts. But unless your in a GW store, or at a tournament there really is no issue with playing as you please, beyond agreeing with your opponents beforehand.
GW also shoot themselves in the foot with these crazy rulings, the answers should be yes or no, not maybe, depends
tinfish said:This ruling always struck me as a bit stupid.
...
GW also shoot themselves in the foot with these crazy rulings, the answers should be yes or no, not maybe, depends
GW ruling of "depends" have occurred many times before. It'd be nice if they didn't do that. And this one just seems completely retarded!
Why you can KB a paladin on a pegasus but not a regular knight on a pegasus is beyond me? It should not work on either....
I think it mainly hurts the game due to the immense cost of fragile creatures like Manticores and Griffons, they all got dropped in 8th, why? Well silly rules like this dont help, a horse should not be more appealing than a 320 pt Dragon.
Perhaps they worried about overpowering characters, I think they actuall swung the pendulum to far and made them too vulnrable.
Don't get me wrong, I love 8th, for me it is the best WFB ever, but it has its flaws
Perhaps they worried about overpowering characters, I think they actuall swung the pendulum to far and made them too vulnrable.
Don't get me wrong, I love 8th, for me it is the best WFB ever, but it has its flaws
I think they don't want to make monstrous infantry easily counterable, but they also don't want to make killing blow redundant. It may make little sense, but sometimes in an attempt to get things to work GW throw sense out of the window.
Jagged_Dragon
Ghoul
perhaps because the actual knights only have a single wound? i realize
KB bypasses saves, but as the knights only have 1 wound to be taken out, as opposed to a character's 2+, KB is a little less meaningful to them?
KB bypasses saves, but as the knights only have 1 wound to be taken out, as opposed to a character's 2+, KB is a little less meaningful to them?
Jagged_Dragon said:
Well, a normal knight only has a single wound.
However, a pegasus knight has 2 wounds...
Jagged_Dragon
Ghoul
Bishop said:
is the rider considered separate from the mount for wounds? ive never played bretts...
if theyre 2 wounds are together it makes sense no kb since the model is all together..
Feast4Crows
Skeleton
The rider is not separate. Since they're monstrous cavalry, the entire model uses the best T and W between what the rider would have and the mount. In this case, they get to use the Pegasus' T4 and W2.
Erm, nope.
Wounds if higher, never toughness.
Mounts Toughness is never used, MC differs only in that it allows higher wounds to be chosen.
If a peg knight gets hit, he loses one wound, if he is Killing Blow(ed) he loses both and mount and rider are removed.
If a character on a Monstrous Cav mount is Killing Blowed, both mount and rider are removed.
Only things like Abyssal Terrors, Dragons, Terrogheists, Manticores etc, that are actual monsters, can remain after the death of the rider.
Monstrous cav dies when it runs out of wounds, along with its rider.
Wounds if higher, never toughness.
Mounts Toughness is never used, MC differs only in that it allows higher wounds to be chosen.
If a peg knight gets hit, he loses one wound, if he is Killing Blow(ed) he loses both and mount and rider are removed.
If a character on a Monstrous Cav mount is Killing Blowed, both mount and rider are removed.
Only things like Abyssal Terrors, Dragons, Terrogheists, Manticores etc, that are actual monsters, can remain after the death of the rider.
Monstrous cav dies when it runs out of wounds, along with its rider.
Page 72 BRB:
Page 7 BRB FaQ:
RAW monstrous cavalry cannot suffer from killing blow. Only exception is when the model is also a character who is a normal infantry when on foot (so you still can't killing blow ogres), in that case both rider and mount would die.
It is weird but that is how it is.
EDIT: Also, with MC you cannot choose to use the lower wound characteristic, you must use the higher.
Page 7 BRB FaQ:
RAW monstrous cavalry cannot suffer from killing blow. Only exception is when the model is also a character who is a normal infantry when on foot (so you still can't killing blow ogres), in that case both rider and mount would die.
It is weird but that is how it is.
EDIT: Also, with MC you cannot choose to use the lower wound characteristic, you must use the higher.