Grave Guard Beginner Help

[Rob Anyone]

Hi One and All,
I'm sorry if this seems like a dumb topic. Having not played much Warhammer fantasy, I was wondering whether Great Weapons are a must for Grave Guard units? Do Grave Guard perform comparatively better with them than without?
Cheers
Al

 

[Paksos]

Most people will give them great weapons as ity gives whole the wounding on 2s thing and as undead you're likely to be striking last anyway.

Personally I always run mine with great weapons - when I play with two Grave Guard hordes (at 4-5k games) I give one the Drakenhof Banner and the other a lord with red fury and blood drinker. With their natural T4 this insulates them against most damage...

 

[Ghormenghast]

The only time I dont field the GG with GW's is if I am fighting High Elves. The better save from HW and Shield can help against missile fire and some spells. Plus the HE's have ASF so I try to counter their ability to reroll hits by casting VDM or using corpse carts on the GG.
The majority of HE models have T3 and are usually lightly armoured so the GG can still do damage with str 4 HWs.

Other than that, I always field them with GW's. Theyre great against- Chaos, Dwarves, Daemons etc.

 

[Bravo_10]

In my experience, Great Weapon GG perform quite well against High Elves anyway, but they can be a tad overkill. I don't often get to tailor my list to my opponent, so I'm never sure which army I'll be facing. But I think if I knew HE were on the horizon, I would usually take Swords 'n' Boards. Although, there is something very satisfying in wounding a Lion Chariot on 2+...

You're also going to want the Banner of the Barrows. Every time. No really, it's dynamite. When you put the Helm of Commandment on your GG, you'll be hitting your enemies on 2+ because of your +1 to hit bonus, so your GG will hit and wound with almost every attack. Painful stuff.

 

[Rob Anyone]

Thanks for all the replies.
Seeing as I don't know who I'll be regularly fighting as I'm moving soon, it sounds like it makes a lot of sense to take Great Weapons then. Cheers for all the advice!

 

[MalumMonachus]

Thanks for all the replies.
Seeing as I don't know who I'll be regularly fighting as I'm moving soon, it sounds like it makes a lot of sense to take Great Weapons then. Cheers for all the advice!

One more remark,
Obviously the GW grave guard cause more damage but they will also get more casualties themselves before it's their time to strike.

This means you need to have a propper sized (in number of models) unit of GG (I recoomend 24, 6w4d as a minimum) but 30 in a horde is even better!

 

[eggsPR]

I run a horde of 40 GG 10x4 with great weapons. Use the Banner of Barrows and throw in your BSB with Drakenhoff Banner, as well as a Helm of Commandment, and you have 30 attacks hitting/wounding on 2+, with a 4+ regen. I've chopped through hordes of charging Ogres like it was nothing. Throw 2 tarpits on each side of this unit and it's game over

 

[Burnanation]

While most people say GW I have always had better luck with sword and board. I would outfit a few of your GG with sword and board. You can put them in the front rank and presto change-o you have a unit of sword and boards, move them to the rear and poof you have unit of GW's. Try'm out see what you like better.

 

[Rob Anyone]

Heya,
I was going to use the list below created by Bravo_10:
Vampire
Dark Acolyte
Summon Ghouls
Sword of Might
Flayed Hauberk
Dragonbane Gem
Potion of Foolhardiness
195

Skeleton Warriors x20
Full Command
Banner of Hellfire
190

Crypt Ghouls x14
Crypt Ghast
120

Grave Guard x20
Full Command
Great Weapons
Banner of the Barrows
335

Varghulf
XXX

I'm not obsessed with winning, but would like a reasonably competitive list, which is why I can't decide which combination of weapons to go for, I'm not sure which works best in the above set up, is 20 GG to small for GW.... Also I quite like the look of swords and boards. I didn't realise that you could split a unit half and half with weapons and I'm assuming say one 'counts as' the other? Another question that came to me would be what should be target priorities for the Varghulf?

 

[Ghormenghast]

What should you target with the Varghulf?
Here are some suggestions.

-Easy Targets:
Single characters (a rarity on the battlefield these days)
Small cavalry units (units under 10 models. Make sure you charge them before they charge you)
Scouting/Ambushing/Skirmishing units
Enemy monsters (be careful around giants, hydras and H-Bombs though)
War machines (except the Hell Cannon)
Flanks, or rear charges on enemy core units (just make sure you are engaging them from the front with ghouls/GG/ or skellys.)

-Poor Targets
Anything that has flaming attacks (negates Vargs regen.)
Big blocks of special/elite infantry (their static CR/multiple attacks will grind the Varg down)
Units with Lords/Special Characters (they'll target the Varg and most likely chop him up)
Missile troops w/ Str 4 or better attacks could be a problem (esp. if they can stand and shoot before the Varg can get in there)

On the whole Vargs are extremely versatile and resilient troop choices. Be patient, dont send them into fights blindly and wait for gaps and slack in the opponents battleline to exploit their weaknesses. I find Vargs shine toward the endgame when enemy units are weakened and out of position. They give a great punch to deadlocked units that are caught in prolonged combats.

Sorry so long, I hope this helps.

 

[Skarsnik the Lord]

Grave Guards with great weapons is the way to go in my opinion. Give them Banner of the Barrows and a Wight King BSB with the Drakenhof Banner, put them in a horde and they'll do very well, especially with a small assistance of the Helm of Commandment. The unit size normally when I use them is 28 (when playing with ETC comps) to 40.

I've never tried Grave Guards with shields in 8th edition but I'm pretty sure they'd not be too good compared to the great weapons - if I had some enemies that are easy to kill with multiples of small Str attacks, I'd just send my Ghouls to take care of them.

- Cheers, Skarsnik.

 

[darthtd]

banner of barrows, elm of commandement, you will be happy with the +1 for hits, BSB banner of drakenhof, i red a couple of places that it regens on +4, but reading the rules and all i see nothing that says so? can anyone give light on this?

 

[Sanai]

Personally I dont see much point in using the dragonbane gem. Its only useful if you get hit by something with flaming attacks, doesnt protect you against the other 90% of attacks.

 

[Zhatan]

Personally I dont see much point in using the dragonbane gem. Its only useful if you get hit by something with flaming attacks, doesnt protect you against the other 90% of attacks.

Hmm no, me neither. I think it is useful if you are in a unit with regen banner just in case it is negated with fire attacks but since that is not the case it's not very useful... but not very expensive either.

 

[Bravo_10]

Ever played in a game with an Anvil of Vaul? I have, and all of a sudden those "useless" items on your Lord and Wight King BSB are suddenly "OH GOD YOU GET A 2+ WARD SAVE??" items. As far as my opinion is concerned, both the Dragonhelm and Dragonbane Gem are so cheap that there's really no reason not to throw them in somewhere if you can. Whenever I have something like 7 points to spare with no real good place to put them, I'll put the Gem on my Hybrid Lord (I play smaller games anyway, so taking something like the Talisman of Preservation is a little pricey).

 

[Rob Anyone]

Hi one and all,
Thanks for all the replies.
My concern with the helm of commandment tactic is that at this level of points I can't really afford to bunker my vampire.... Any advice on how to tool him out more effectively is welcome
Cheers for all the advice on the GG, now I can finally start assembling them!