Grave guard weapon choosal

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dvarfa1

Zombie
Oct 11, 2009
33
Zombies
21
HI!:Vampire1::Vampire1:

I know ive been told to make my own lists by most ppl so far...
but this aint really a list-question! its kinda list-orientated but not a list...
i wanna know what the ultimate 10man GG unit would have for equipment! great weapons or HW&Shield or something else! PLS TELL ME!
i have the boxset but dunno what to build with it =P

/dvarfa1
 
Thread moved.

I'd say that it depends on if you're going to keep them at 10-models strong in the future as well. If you are, then I would say that Great Weapons will work better for you. Grave Guard with Hand Weapons and Shields will need greater numbers to let them take punches and still break the enemy with static CR and the odd kill per turn. Even Great Weapon Grave Guard would work better in larger numbers but they'll still be hitting at full strength in such a small unit.

For modelling I'd advice you to model 5 of them with Shields and the other 5 with Great Weapons. That way you can easily swap their equipment from match to match, simply place the configuration you want to use at the front of the unit and there won't be much confusion. :)
 
I think it depends what you want to do with them. A 3+ save is good in combat but with only 1 S4 attack they aren't going to do a lot. However conversely with great weapons they will have a hard time attacking as they will be going last and have most of their save nullified. 10 man is also a small unit. If you're going to use them as a small flanker I would go with great weapons and try to kill their way out of combat on the charge and hopefully break the other unit.

If you're using the Drakenhoff banner great weapons are the way to go since they'll be survivable enough to live through attacks.
 
The Drakenhof Banner requires a Battle Standard bearer to carry it though. A Wight King with it in a unit of Grave Guard with the Banner of the Barrows (+1 to hit for all of them) is a fearsome fighting block. :)
 
A truly awesome sight to behold, that, Masterspark.

There are two schools of thought on GG. Fitting, considering there's only two different weapon choices, right?

HW+shield:

Survivable. A 3+ Armor save is nothing to laugh at on troops that we can revive over and over again. It makes the unit into an 'Anvil', or something you can use a 'Hammer' unit to scrape off the remains once they're stuck in combat. They can get a few lucky killing blows on characters, champions, or high AS Rank and file infantry, so don't be afraid to allocate one or two attacks versus a character or problem model while in combat! Killing blow is too nice not to threaten everything valuable that touches that block with the thought of losing their head.

Great Weapon:

My personal favorite. I love Grave Guard with Strength 6. They only have a 5+ save, so be careful with them! These guys are now officially changed from 'Anvil' to a 'Hammer' unit. These guys hit like a ton of bricks, especially with the right support. (Helm of Command, Corpse Cart, Vanhels Dance I'm lookin' at you guys!).

for example. A 10 man unit of GG with champ and Standard, which I'd recommend a minimum of 12 models (6x2), by the way, with ASF (From the Corpse Cart) and Great weapons dishes out 7 Str 6 attacks that are hitting on 3's (2's! If you use the Helm of Command.) and wounding on Twos unless you're attacking some bad beastie with high, high toughness. That's typically 6 to 7 wounds, unless your luck is really down.


So, that's my thoughts on the matter. HW+S if you want a unit that can Negate ranks, cause a little damage, and be a utility roadblock, flank denial, or mini-anvil, then go for it. If you want them to deal some damage, AND have the points on the Support units, I can't stress this enough, then go with great weapons.


Or, just model them half and half, and run with either, as according to the game. That works too.
 
20 with GW is for me deploy 7 wide and smash the enemy into dust also a BSB with Barrows and a standard with Strigoi works horribly...
 
You might want to note that most players seriously dislike the Drakenhoff banner unless you are player over powered lists. In standard or friendly lists you might get some flak from other players................

I would also suggest you have a higher unit strength. You can't increase GG beyond their starting strength with IoN, and if you get hit with any type of decent flaming attack you may get wiped out before you can heal the unit.
 
14-24 with great weapons and a banner that helps with hitting, backed up by a corpse chart (and preferbly also the helm), otherwise you can might aswell play more ghoul units (or skelletons if thats what your army is based on), since ghouls/skellies can already preform the same tactical role as grave guards with shields
 
To an extent. Still, shielded grave guard have +1 Ws, T, and Save over skellies, and have +4 save and command options over ghouls, making them a significantly harder static res unit then either, especially if you're running a more casual 'combat' army, where you can't rely on spammed mastery invocations to keep your lesser infantry in numbers, nor can you rely on spammed invocations to keep great weapon armed grave guard striking first. And even without great weapons, you still have killing blow, which can cause enemy heroes to think twice.

I'm still fairly new, and I have little doubt that in a tournament setting you're better off arming grave guard with great weapons or not at all, but in more casual games I've rarely been disappointed with the large block of shield armed grave guard that I run as my Vamp Lord's bodyguard.
 
I agree with Malisteen. In a less than magic heavy list, a block of Grave Guard with shields are more often than not a great investment. :)

Edit: They're a good choice in a magic heavy list as well but as has been mentioned, the Great Weapons really come to the fore when they have the magical backup to push them.
 
All in all it ultimatly comes down to the job they are there to do (as has been said previous replies) my favourite set up is 21 gg, full command with great weapons (3x7) nightshroud sword of kings wight king bsb, unit flag is +1 to hit. Sitting in front of bunkered casty lord with helm and book flanked by 2 corpse carts with either balefire or lodestone or combo. Lets see who hits first? Barring initiative roll offs (where the wk strikes 1st anyway). I have found that this combo is crazy at knocking off most things that come their way! Best moment when a tough unit of black guard charged them announced the assasin was there to kill the wk bsb. The wk chuckled at an assasin with initiative 1 then decided to lop off his head before it could sneeze. The black guard fluffed their attacks (i lost 1 wight) then they hit back on 2's killing on 2's then got auto broken by fear and chased down. Wonderful moment, its why i love playing warhammer
 
Are you sure that those were Black Guard that you were fighting, Tex? If so, you must have forgotten that they're both Immune to Psychology and Stubborn on default LD 9. They'll hardly ever break. :(
 
hmmm stubborn dosnt help when autobreaking but maybe they were executioners instead. The guy never has the right models and always proxy's which is fine in our club but confusing at times. So my apologies it was a hard hitting unit anyway. The result was still the same!!xD
 
if its hard HITTING and not hard ARMORED then they were executioners =D
and then again its not that strange you won!

/Dvarfa1

PS: I have the battalionbox+a box of skellies+a box o graveguard+a wight king BSB so ill make my own paintinglog sooner than expected, and its my birthday this day the 27th of orktober so congrat me or face my wrath!
 
No worries about that Tex, we all have to deal with proxies every now and again. :)

On the note of Black Guards though, you should not send your GW Grave Guard against them unless you have no other choice - it really is a bad matchup for your wights. :vampire2:
 
What is so good about Black Guard I never really got it, so theyve got to S4 attacks their armour is terrible and even with ASF Empire blocks rip um to peices...
 
first of, they have what youve already said, next they have a special-character-champion, and finally if you pick the right banner theyve got Always Strikes First =D

/Dvarfa1
 
Black Guards have 2S4 WS6 Hatred + Warrior Elite (Pretty much Infinite Hatred).
The champion can be equipped with Crimson Death (Always S6 regardless of modifiers)
The Standard Bearer ca be equipped with Standard of Hag Graef (always strikes first)

I deploy mine 7-wide (14) or 5x4 (19+Lord) and they can have an Assassin in there (which is easily, against T4, 5-7 S5 WS9 Hatred attacks)

They are ITP, Stubborn on LD9 and cost the same amount of points as a Grave Guard with Great Weapon.
 
Yeah, fought this type of unit....once. Once was enough. Between the damm assassin and troops wiped out my whole unit of my GG in 2 turns. Bad DE!!!!! Bad DE!!!!!!!!

Don't EVER charge them. Didn't get the chance to raise into the unit since I charged them. Suffering 2 turns of slaughter finished them off before I was able to do anything to help them.......Bad Bad DE!!!!!!!
 

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