Great Fire Dragon Turn 1

[Count Darvaleth]

If he does keep his bloodline powers, what about an ethereal firedragon? could it work any ideas?

Dude, no. He does not keep his special rules, he becomes a new unit. He "transmogrifies into a monster" with its own set of special rules and attributes. If you say it carries over, then why not add his Attacks together, and his Wounds? Dude, it's the cheesiest, nastiest, foulest, under-hand tactic I've heard in a while.

If I was your opponent, I'd start throwing real rocks at you instead of rolling a scatter dice.


I mean no personal offence, just the cheesyness of some tactics get to me sometimes.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

5. Do not cast it out of close combat. My only charge my opponent flee'd and I was left high and dry with no unit support.

You don't have to leave the unit when you turn into the monster it says so in the spell description

 

[Phazed98]

Lol that was sort of my point, it would be clearly broken, it was just something quirky that the rules technically dont say you cant do, I would never personally use that against someone, but it by RAW is allowed.[/align]

 

[Darkos]

Dude, no. He does not keep his special rules, he becomes a new unit. He "transmogrifies into a monster" with its own set of special rules and attributes.

Saying first that i'm not against your argument, let's analize it with some detail:

Imagine you're judge in a tourney. A high Elf player transforms a wizard into a dragon and sais he can ASF, as all models in his army can. His oponent cries "cheese". so let's see.
Can other HE dragons ASF? yes.
His this dragon from HE armylist? Arguably, but almost everyone will agree that yes.
Is there any rule that makes a transformed character loose his army special rules? no.

Same is true for DE hatred, or vampires Undead and many others

So rules wise, and with a bunch of common sense, i must allow the HE player to ASF. Nasty? yes. Unbalanced? yes. but is the same that allow a frenzied, hating chatracter to pass this habilities to his dragon mount on 7th.

Remember, Warhammer is NEVER about common sense.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Remember, Warhammer is NEVER about common sense.

*Cry* Lore of Beasts has broken this game. *Cry*. But the thought of an Ethereal Dragon makes me cry "cheeeeese" inside, but my invisible beard cries "yeeees!!!". I am so, horribly tempted....

 

[Brian Mage]

I AM a HE Player and i never play any dragon i field as having ASF. the Speed of Asuryan special rule states that it only applies to High Elves NOT their mounts, monsters or creatures pulling them.

If you are playing a HE player who's giving a dragon ASF then punch him! ha!

I agree that the Vamps special rules should be fully replaced by those of the Dragon, You wouldn't try to keep a higher Vamp WS, so why a special rule. However that does mean IoN works at full power and not just one wound, as the Dragon is no longer a Vampire. therefore no vampire special rule.

Vampiric powers, I would firmly play it that they are nullified until he is back as a Vamp. Whether or not i'm playing with my Vamps or HE's! After all, only a vampire can have vampiric powers, and a dragon is not a vampire, nor is it a steam tank, nor is it a 747!

Just because it does not say you CAN'T keep them, it does not mean you CAN. Because it does not say that either.

If you want people to play games with you and talk to you like your not an idiot, don't try and pull off Red Fury Etherial Greater Fire Dragon... :mad2:

 

[Fodderboy]

However that does mean IoN works at full power and not just one wound, as the Dragon is no longer a Vampire. therefore no vampire special rule.

You can only IoN multiple wounds to non-vamp infantry. Anything else, a category that I am sure covers all of the beasties you can transform into, only gets one wound per casting, just like bats, dogs, and zombie dragons.

 

[Brian Mage]

erm yeah... i honestly meant to write "does that" and not "that does"
Ha!

 

[Zanthor]

*Cry* Lore of Beasts has broken this game. *Cry*. But the thought of an Ethereal Dragon makes me cry "cheeeeese" inside, but my invisible beard cries "yeeees!!!". I am so, horribly tempted....

Hehehe, an honest man! I agree, I want to do it too, but don't want to open the door to others being stupid with rules mis-interpretations.

So, I plan to use it to counter RAW weenies and say "Sure, and I could take an Ethereal dragon too, but I'd like to have opponents to play with" when they bring up such nonsense in the middle of a game.

 

[Tamodan Varison]

I don't understand all the fuss about the 'ethereal dragon'. It's not like you're going to kill the dragon (T8, 2+) without magic weapons if he's not ethereal...

 

[Burnanation]

Remember now that str 1 can wound tough 10 on a natural roll of 6 to wound. So magic weapon only attacks to wound would still be beneficial, especially with all attacks that might be coming at him.

 

[Fodderboy]

Mathhammer shows that wounding on a 6 and saving on a 2+ means you need 36 s1 hits in order to average 1 wound.

Not even a frenzied zombie horde will manage that.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I would be far more worried about a dragon with redfury then an ethereal one

 

[Gneisenau]

I don't understand all the fuss about the 'ethereal dragon'. It's not like you're going to kill the dragon (T8, 2+) without magic weapons if he's not ethereal...

Cannons have a good chance. Anything with S5 and Greatweapons can at least whittle the dragon down, until the enemy dispells the transformation (and instantly kills the vampire, if enough wounds are caused).

 

[Count Darvaleth]

However that does mean IoN works at full power and not just one wound, as the Dragon is no longer a Vampire. therefore no vampire special rule.

No, because he would also lose the "undead" special rule and therefore cannot be affected by the IoN in the first place.

 

[Milos]

I would be far more worried about a dragon with redfury then an ethereal one

Or mountain manticore
That would be sick...

But i think that no special rule apply to this dragon/manticore/whatever... What I'm concerned, is what if you transform your general? Or what if you have 1 Vamp Lord, and all other characters are WK or necros? You must have 1 vamp in army don't you?

 

[Fodderboy]

Hope it's not threadomancy, but I was just thinking of a counter.

On a hero-level dragon vampedo, the Frog Scroll has a 1/6 chance of not nerfing this spell.

Even on a hybrid lvl 3 lord, you're still down to a coin flip as to whether or not you're fighting a giant lizard or a slightly less giant frog.

 

[Ophidicus]

Here's an odd quirk though:

Q: If a model is transformed, for example by the Transformation of
Kadon or Sivejir’s Hex Scroll, do their special rules stop working
along with their magic items and equipment?(Reference)
A: No

The toad would still be a Large Target with a breath weapon, scaly skin and random attacks (1)! The rule isn't lost but the characteristic is reduced to 1, an academic issue but an amusing one.

 

[Forge]

Ethreal mountain chimera or red fury, it is confirmed special rules carry over. and yes even if it lost all of its special rules IoN would work as it says undead or character models can benifit from IoN although because the chimera will retain its special rules it has vampire and can only be healed 1 wound per casting.