Guards of the Grave

[N.I.B]

So the discussion about the super Grave Guard unit made me dust off a list from a couple of months back that I've yet to use, and add some Cheddar to it:

Guards of the Grave II2250 Pts - Vampire Counts Army

Vampire Lord lvl 3
Master of the Black Arts
Summon Ghouls
Forbidden Lore
Helm of Commandment
Skull Staff

Wight King BSB on barded skeletal steed, lance
The Drakenhof Banner

Necromancer - IoN, Danse
Black Periapt
Power Stone

Necromancer - IoN, Danse
Power Stone
Power Stone

6 Dire Wolves + Doom Wolf

10 Crypt Ghouls
10 Crypt Ghouls
10 Crypt Ghouls

25 Grave Guard with full command and great weapons
Banner of the Barrows
(WS 7 GG's with BoB? Yes please!)

18 Grave Guard with full command
War Banner
(BSB goes here)

1 Varghulf
1 Varghulf

Casting Pool: 9
Dispel Pool: 6
Models in Army: 84
Total Army Cost: 2249

I figured two Grave Guards blocks are cooler than one. The only thing this army lacks is a dispel scroll and champions in two Ghoul blocks, but it's a pretty filthy list in all.

 

[Nagash the Black]

I like this list, your power stones on necros and 2 nice big units of GG(where are you going to put the necros?).Tell us how it works.

 

[Demon-Face]

looks good to me. although I would add more wolves.

 

[Max zero]

I have never really been sold on the GG. When that topic came up about I was a little surprised. While GG have been somewhat popular they have been far from required to win tournies.

While Gazzor's army was mentioned I noticed no one mentioned the battle report where he got massacred by the WE. The same vulnerability that was in that army is in this army: lack of mobility. Having all your power in 2 4 mv infantry blocks is fraught with danger.

There is a reason why you don't generally see infantry heavy armies too often. VC, while different, are not different enough that the fundamentals of battle don't apply to them.

Anyway enough with my negativity, good luck!

 

[Lord Fear]

Well I think that's why there are two very fast killing machines in the army, to negate that weakness. Seems very solid, though it's less of an army, more of a permutation of stats and numbers. Might as well play this one with coins on square pieces of card!

 

[Max zero]

Oh the Vargulfs are great but Gazzor has a 10 strong unit of Wraiths in his army and that was not enough mobile firepower. While the Vargulfs are faster combat wise they are weaker then 10 Wraiths.

 

[Lord Fear]

I'm not quite sure I understand the reason for the repeated refences to this Gazzor person (He's won some games with a hugely unbalanced list, so what?). A Varghulf weaker than 10 Wraiths? Given that it's a third of the cost, I'm not entirely sure what your point is. It's also not quite so worried about a Hail of Doom arrow, you'll appreciate. Also note that his Wraiths were forces to stay close to his general, due to lack of other Vampires in the army (what with over half the points being tied up in the 2 units); the Varghulf has no such limiting factor, it can go zooming off as fast as it likes with no babysitter.

Mind you, I don't really much like Varghulfs either after my game yesterday (Fighting a High Elf Noble general, needing 4+ to hit, with re-rolls, and then 2+ to wound... and I manage 1 wound. Goshdarnit!!!)

 

[Max zero]

Mainly because Gazzor is about the only one recently I have seen that really had major use of Regen GG. I personally don't see what the fuss is about. There are plenty of powerful infantry units about; Mortal Chaos and Dwarfs seem to be full of them. The regen banner does not counter the main weakness of infantry: speed.

Vargulfs help but they can't do it on their own. NIB seems to know that hence the Necro's with VHD and Powerstones.

Against certain armies big unkillable GG units will do fine but against MSU and fast armies i'm not so sure.

But, like I said before, gl and I hope he does well.

 

[N.I.B]

Hey Gazzor discussion, what are you doing in my army list thread?! Anyway, IIRC he lost that particular game to WE because he fell out of his game, he didn't play to the strenght of his army. But infantry based armies like mine here will always have close games against point denial skirmish hell armies. Oh, and his list can't be said to be 'unbalanced' just by looking at it. You need to compare it with the lists he play against - usually as hard as his.

On the other hand, I think WE will have a hard time beating this baby. One of the Ghoul blocks is the wizard bunker of course, the other two will be inflated to about 25 strong in the first two turns. Varghulfs will make life hard for any fast support trying to get around my flanks. And nothing in a WE army scares me in the front. That mobile WS 7 is sick. He'll struggle to take points from me, as the blocks are pretty point denial, and I don't have a lot of easy killed support.

From turn 3 Winds of Undeath will be cast if needed - Alters and wizards taking a picnic in a forest - tough luck.

 

[Bigpig]

Im missing the nine power dice. Should that be Dark acolyte instead of Forbidden lore?

I ran 9 PD on my last edition Strigoi army and had great success with an infantry heavy theme. Under current rules set I think 9PD is even more powerful due to the ability to roll 1 die to raise.

Just a thought would you be better off compacting your ghoul units to one unit of 20 and one unit of 10? Having to spread your raising out around more units seems risky if you face dedicated anti magic army.

 

[Bigpig]

Whoops! Disregard, I see the math for the nine PD now.

Same question on the ghoul layout though

 

[Lord Fear]

Because the army list still requires us to have 3 proper core choices, of course. It's not coincidence that a good 3/4 of army lists have 3 x 10 Ghouls as core, you know.

 

[Rammstein]

I like the look of this list mate, I'll probably field something like this in my next game minus a varghulf as I've only got one.

The Lord set up your running is pretty much what I've been using lately as well. The +1 to cast and dispel makes more of a difference than I first expected.

I love the Graveguard at the minute especially with the Regen Wight BSB, it aint cheesy or over powered its effective and for once I think to myself "yea its worth spending some points on that unit."

 

[Falahk]

Just a thought would you be better off compacting your ghoul units to one unit of 20 and one unit of 10? Having to spread your raising out around more units seems risky if you face dedicated anti magic army.

he need 3 core thought......and this list is about as mini maxed as it can get already