Hand of Dust...anyone use it?
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subber45
Ghoul
I have been trying it on a Vampire thats with my cavalry ( both Bk and BloodKnights ) To see if we can overcome some of the early combat res problems. Also has been a nasty suprise if hidden in a skellie unit that you bait them into attacking. Its a MEH kinda item. Try it in a friendly game.
I used to use it, sure. It offered a pretty substantial 'bite' to a unit. Only expect it to go off once though, and not at all against regular opponents. It will rarely kill it's cost, but sucking up 2 enemy dispel dice every turn (when the unit is in base-to-base with something!) is worth it.
However, it is difficult to find a place for in an army. I don't think anyone would equip a lord with it as there are other items and combinations better suited, and giving it to a thrall would take up all of his item allowance.
I will probably not use it again.
However, it is difficult to find a place for in an army. I don't think anyone would equip a lord with it as there are other items and combinations better suited, and giving it to a thrall would take up all of his item allowance.
I will probably not use it again.
It can be used a nasty surprise, to gain a little boost in combat or the like.
Another use would be as a mage protector, for a necro or magic orientated vampire. Most mage hunters would be quite cut down by the potential 12 attacks.
Another use would be as a mage protector, for a necro or magic orientated vampire. Most mage hunters would be quite cut down by the potential 12 attacks.
The fact it is only power level 3, can only be used in close combat, drains on a 1, and takes a whopping 50 points pretty much shoots it down, IMO. All it takes is for your opponent to have one dispel die (or a scroll) handy to neuter the "first surprise" element, and then you have 50 points of worthless equipment (as The Inspector points out, completely consumes a hero's magic item allowance). I dont see how it ever competes against all the other good stuff out there (dispel scrolls, power stones, black periapts, Book of Arkhan, etc).
Sure, it has the POTENTIAL to be awesome (theoretically you could kill a Thirster with it)...but it seems to me very little liklihood of amounting to anything other than a points sink that draws a FEW dispel dice out of your opponent.
Okay, so lets pursue that line of thinking. It is MORE useful as a dispel die/scroll consumer than as an actual offensive item. So you would want it in a unit that was going to be stuck in as soon as possible, so you could start whipping it out and getting your opponent to throw dice or scrolls at it (assuming he cares about the unit you hit). A character in hard charging Black Knights would seem fit that bill (wight king?), but it has that annoying Drain On A 1 thing, as well as being FIFTY STINKIN POINTS! So now it is reduced to a 50 point item that is best used just to get your opponent to hold back 2 dispel dice IN CASE you use it. lol
Sure, it has the POTENTIAL to be awesome (theoretically you could kill a Thirster with it)...but it seems to me very little liklihood of amounting to anything other than a points sink that draws a FEW dispel dice out of your opponent.
Okay, so lets pursue that line of thinking. It is MORE useful as a dispel die/scroll consumer than as an actual offensive item. So you would want it in a unit that was going to be stuck in as soon as possible, so you could start whipping it out and getting your opponent to throw dice or scrolls at it (assuming he cares about the unit you hit). A character in hard charging Black Knights would seem fit that bill (wight king?), but it has that annoying Drain On A 1 thing, as well as being FIFTY STINKIN POINTS! So now it is reduced to a 50 point item that is best used just to get your opponent to hold back 2 dispel dice IN CASE you use it. lol
Adrift, I'm pretty sure that the hand of dust has got a power level of 5, which makes it just a tad bit more harder to dispel, at least with a single dice. 
Anyway, I haven't used the item myself but I am planning to in my next 3000 points battle. The thing is that I would have to drop a cairn wraith to fit it in and I'm not quite sure if that is worth it or not, heheh.
Anyway, I haven't used the item myself but I am planning to in my next 3000 points battle. The thing is that I would have to drop a cairn wraith to fit it in and I'm not quite sure if that is worth it or not, heheh.
You should check that again...MasterSpark said:
Also, pretty useless against a Bloodthirster, as he gets to use his MR against it.
If you want it in a list, you must include Book of Arkhan too, as most people hold back 2 dice just in case of a nasty Danse Macabre.
And it can still burn out. A sub-par item, all in all.
Just like you CAN score enough wounds on a 5+, and then get past his 5+ ward! lol Hey, at least the Str is high enough to get past the heavy armor. heh Okay, maybe another GD would have been a better example...I just used it recently against nurgle warriors of chaos. Wight King had it, killed 3 warriors with it, and it never went off again. I think it would have been better off on a cavalry unit in the game I played with it.
It's an all or nothing type item.
For the cost I think it's too iffy, but I still think it'd be great to see the look on someone's face when it goes off on a flank charge.
While writing this, I had a thought. If you are in a challenge and you set off the HoD, does it all go to the other champion in some grotesque overkill, or does it still affect the hosting unit. IIRC, the duellists are only separated for the CC phase.
For the cost I think it's too iffy, but I still think it'd be great to see the look on someone's face when it goes off on a flank charge.
While writing this, I had a thought. If you are in a challenge and you set off the HoD, does it all go to the other champion in some grotesque overkill, or does it still affect the hosting unit. IIRC, the duellists are only separated for the CC phase.
Fodderboy said:
From what I understand, characters in duels are never considered to be not in base to base with whatever they're in base to base contact with. They just cannot be attacked by other models, or attack other models, for the duration of the challenge. The Hand will hit the unit, just as Warrior Priest's Soulfire won't suddenly smack your Lord dead, but hit the unit.
Yeah challenges only go off in the Close Combat phase, don't they? So you can magic the unit not the character, yes?
Yes - the item is distributed as per shooting so cannot be directed against a character in a duel.
Personally the Hand of Dust is too expensive an item to make is viable in a balanced list - far better things for your lord, and taking up the full allowance on a hero is not good.
The best option I can think of using it is a vamp / WK in a Black Knight unit with the Banner that gives you double US (curse my poor memory!!). Slam into a decent size low T infantry unit, cut down their numbers with the hand of dust and them proving all goes well in the combat phase autobreak them via outnumbering.
Personally the Hand of Dust is too expensive an item to make is viable in a balanced list - far better things for your lord, and taking up the full allowance on a hero is not good.
The best option I can think of using it is a vamp / WK in a Black Knight unit with the Banner that gives you double US (curse my poor memory!!). Slam into a decent size low T infantry unit, cut down their numbers with the hand of dust and them proving all goes well in the combat phase autobreak them via outnumbering.
It's the Banner of the Dead Legion, which I prefer to the Banner of the Barrows simply for the greater autobreak potential.
Gotta love 5BK's with US20.
Gotta love 5BK's with US20.
I used it today in tournament JUST to give it a shot. You know, go for the surprise factor.
I ran it on a WK BSB in a 6 strong BK unit. This was my big hammer unit in the army which otherwise had ghouls and a couple Varghulfs. In 5 games, I got to use it effectively in 4 of them.
First use was against a cheesy annoying DE Death Star unit consisting of 23 Shades with Great Weapons into which went the ASF BSB, an uber lord, and 2 other characters. I popped it off about 3 times ( ! Long grinding fight ) and it was dispelled every time by the units MR3.
Second use was again against DE. Charge Hydra, used to suck out his last dispel scroll, and then I roll a 1 and it exhausts
Third use was AGAIN against DE. Danse in lone WK ( rest of BK unit lost to IF cast of Dark Horror and total chuff of 5 Str rolls
) against protracted battle with DreadLord on Dragon. Surprise factor works and I get it off but only roll 4 hits. Result is one wound on Dragon and one on Lord. Could have been a game breaker if I rolled higher.
Fourth use was against Skaven. Flank charge against fully ranked skaven clanrats. Killed 5ish of them and eventually slaughtered the unit. Likely would have happened without the Hand
Net analysis. It was not worth the 50 points. I could have used those points much better on Sword of Kings or a good standard like Strigois or Dead Legions. I probably wont run it again
I ran it on a WK BSB in a 6 strong BK unit. This was my big hammer unit in the army which otherwise had ghouls and a couple Varghulfs. In 5 games, I got to use it effectively in 4 of them.
First use was against a cheesy annoying DE Death Star unit consisting of 23 Shades with Great Weapons into which went the ASF BSB, an uber lord, and 2 other characters. I popped it off about 3 times ( ! Long grinding fight ) and it was dispelled every time by the units MR3.
Second use was again against DE. Charge Hydra, used to suck out his last dispel scroll, and then I roll a 1 and it exhausts
Third use was AGAIN against DE. Danse in lone WK ( rest of BK unit lost to IF cast of Dark Horror and total chuff of 5 Str rolls
) against protracted battle with DreadLord on Dragon. Surprise factor works and I get it off but only roll 4 hits. Result is one wound on Dragon and one on Lord. Could have been a game breaker if I rolled higher.Fourth use was against Skaven. Flank charge against fully ranked skaven clanrats. Killed 5ish of them and eventually slaughtered the unit. Likely would have happened without the Hand
Net analysis. It was not worth the 50 points. I could have used those points much better on Sword of Kings or a good standard like Strigois or Dead Legions. I probably wont run it again
hand of dusts seems only to work as a suprise if at all or to suck enermies dispel dice
most ppl i'm guessing will try and dispel a 2D6 ST 5 hit with 1 dice, 2 if they're playing safe
doesn't seem to be worth the points
most ppl i'm guessing will try and dispel a 2D6 ST 5 hit with 1 dice, 2 if they're playing safe
doesn't seem to be worth the points
Thanks for the report BigPig. You touched on something I learned in my economics classes that applies very well to Warhammer. Opportunity Cost - for every expenditure of resources there is a cost in what could have been done with those resources otherwise. I.E. The cost of buying a flat screen TV is that you can't go on a summer vacation. Running the hand means you can't run Sword of the kings.. or you can't run those two extra black knights or you can't setup an extra small unit of ghouls to raise into.
It's a powerful tool to always look at what you could have gotten for those points otherwise. Even if the net effect of the item was positive it may not have been good enough to justify the lost points.
It's a powerful tool to always look at what you could have gotten for those points otherwise. Even if the net effect of the item was positive it may not have been good enough to justify the lost points.
Baslakor
Wight King
Since it is used in the magic phase, do the wounds count for the CR?
If so, where can that be found in the rue book?
Thanks!
If so, where can that be found in the rue book?
Thanks!
