hello

[craigo07]

Hello fellow lords of the undead I thought I would write a quick introduction before posting elsewhere as I have LOADS of questions and ideas!

I started collecting warhammer over ten years ago with Orcs and Goblins. I put the hobby on hold whilst I finished school and college but continued to buy WD magazine and look at the GW website regulary before recently deciding to return.

I have always been a fan of vampire and werewolf myth and films and at the beginning of the year I got the BA and SW battleforces (I really couldn't decide which one I wanted!) and that made me want a VC army. This months WD has made up my mind (that zombie dragon and terrorgheist are awesome) so ive order the battalion to start and cannot wait to unleash the hordes of the undead on my friends!

Please forgive me if you see me asking lots of question on new or existing posts as I want to make sure I don't dishonour the majesty of our race!

 

[Lynks]

Welcome to the forums and the ranks of the undying! We hope you enjoy your stay, you'll be here for quite a long time
As a point of note, you'll probably want to get yourself another battalion box as the VC army needs really large, solid core blocks these days. Grave guard are also a sound future investment.
I'm sure no one will mind if you ask lots of questions, just make sure you check out the FEAR (frequently enquired about rules) and the GW FAQs, then make a little search in the relevant section. Sometimes there are very commonly answered questions asked that will just be directed to these places anyway.

 

[craigo07]

Thanks for the reply. I will add to the battalion asap and following your advise another battalion will be at the top of my list of priorities followed by my characters.

 

[Lynks]

Well the characters are pretty essential to vampire counts as well, but i am sure that not too many opponents are going to mind facing off against some orc and goblin vampires for a while, so long as you still have those models

 

[craigo07]

I didnt think of using my old models! I was thinking of starting games with good sized uniths and then use a specific vampire or necromancer to increase unit sizes through the game (I hope this wouldnt be a waste of a character).

 

[Lynks]

Raising up your army used to be a very effective strategy in the last edition, however I have found that in the new edition, however in the current 8th edition, with magic being far more balanced and close combat being significantly more deadly to the undead, it is more reliable to have a decent army and use buffing spells to improve their performance or use hex spells to weaken the enemy. If you want to use the raising strategy, you should choose a particular unit that will be the focus of this raising. You also need to remember that only zombies can be raised above their starting size without taking one of the three vampire powers that allow that particular characters to raise up the corresponding units. Sorry if this all feels like a bit of a lecture, I just thought this would be a good opportunity to discuss some tactics

 

[craigo07]

Its helpful not a lecture! I have misunderstood invocation of nehek with regards to raising or havent explained myself properly. I was going to use the vampire or necromancer to replace losses to units during combat or shooting. I now understand where I was wrong. As you said only zombies can be raised without vampire powers so that rules out the necromancer for increasing unit sizes of everything else. Reading what you have said I think it will be better to take a necromancer and use him to mainatain a particular unit (probably grave guard). This will hopefully allow me to used my more powerful vampires for other things.

With regards to raising, can black knights be raised with magic?

 

[Lynks]

black knights can be raised to their starting numbers if they have taken wounds previously, however with each casting of Invocation of nehek they will only regain a single wound as they do not count as infantry models.

 

[craigo07]

ok so would grave guard be a better option as my main combat unit with black knights used as support for this unit? Would it be a good idea to put my general in this unit to keep them moving or a CC vampire chracter instead? Or could a wright king bsb do the same thing? I dont want to take risks with my general as he is too important.

 

[Lynks]

not taking risks with your general is advice you wont get from me I take a level 4, close combat vampire general so they are up in the thick of it, and without any real miscast protection beyond her 4+ ward, quite prone to blowing herself up or getting sucked into portals to the abyss

That the sort of decision you would have to make for yourself. Almost every list incorporates grave guard (almost always with great weapons) because they are very reliable and destructive for their points, providing the hard hitting unit that VC need. Black knights can fill the role, but most people who choose them over GG are doing it for more fluffy reasons than because they think they are a superior choice. Obviously however they are far more mobile than GG and can be applied to monster/ warmachine hunting, but they are not so good against big units.

Only a model with the vampire rule is able to keep your army moving, so unless the Wight king had the banner which allowed his unit to march without a vampire (which is a pretty silly choice for a wight king to take) he would only provide hitting power to the unit (as well as leadership which can be used for swift reforms) I rarely find that one of my units is outside of marching range of the general or another vampire though, and with the new charging rules it doesnt matter so much if they are.

 

[craigo07]

How well would black knights and blood knights work together? Im thinking this combo down one flank with a varghulf and dire wolves down the other and then a solid centre of ghouls, zombies, skeletons and grave guard in the centre with the characters spread out. This seams the most common tactic that people use.

 

[Lynks]

Taking both bloodknights and black knights can work as you are quite mobile and have a great hitting power. however, unless it is quite a large game points wise you will be able to fit them both in without damaging your levels of core troops, which is always an issue for the vampires with our core units being so highly costed for how they perform.
Personally I would lean toward taking one or the other, however if i were to take them both i would send the blood knights down one flank and have the black knights with the vargulf on the other. Dire wolves are best taken in very small units to force deployment and re-direct, occasionally taking on a warmachine or small group of archers (even then it would need to be a flank charge to not get beaten down)
By taking the vargulf with the black knights you would keep the high strength attacks coming in subsequent rounds of combat and you would be able to maximise the number of models in base contact far easier, pulling off a charge with both blood knights and black knights on one unit would be pretty tricky.
But if you do take them both you definately want them on the flanks, charging units in the flank withh large blocks of core troops in the middle, supported by a few characters so you hit that part on the spot

 

[craigo07]

Im still trying to understand the whole undead rule but this is why i love vampire counts! What you be a useful choice to keep dire wolves moving? I dont want them to be sitting targets! Like you say a varghulf and black knights would be better as that combination is far more manouverable and the blood knights are vampires anyway. I have never played a game bigger than 1000 points (that only how large my o&g army was!) so this is all new to me!

 

[Lynks]

Dire wolves with their 18 inch march and then 9 + (3d6, pick the two highest) charge probably wont need the vampire rule for more than the first turn (38 inches should be enough to get into contact with most things ), unless you have something very complicated to set up. Obviously the vargulf is a prime choice for accompanying them as well but you could use a vampire on hellsteed or vampire with wings/ talisman of lynci if you needed to set up something tricky, but all the options are a pretty sizable investment in points to keep what is largely cannonfodder moving these days, I am sure more people would take them if they added to your core, however given their 'do not count towards minimum core requirements' the points can be spent elsewhere better most of the time.

 

[craigo07]

My use for them would be to target warmachines and skirmishers. Ive got another thread on this forum for a werewolf vampire to lead a unit of dire wolves but that would only be for large games where I can take a few characters and then I would use the unit for bigger things. Varghulfs seem to be a pretty useful choice its hard to choose between them and blood knights! Its something i will learn as i play more games i suppose.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

I noticed that you were discussing the use of knights...? Let me tell you that if you do take Blood Knights, prepare to be awed by their combat prowess. But do you know what makes them unstoppable?

Taking a simple Thrall vampire with the Blood Drinker, maybe some kind of BRB armour for the ten points you have left, then the vampiric power that puts him on a barded steed with a shield and heavy armour (giving you a nice 2+ save, maybe 1+ if you take the dragon helm or something) and any other vampiric power you like.

This combo is unkillable. As you have discovered, the Invocation can only raise certain models (like Blood Knights) one at a time per spell, which is a waste of power dice really. However, each time the Thrall causes a wound, he raises one Blood Knight as per the rules for IoN; he essentially gets around the power-dice drain that raising the whole unit would require by using a flashy sword instead. Each round he will strike before the knights, and raise any casualties, which will then allow them to strike after. A unit of knights which replenishes itself in combat; what's not to like!?

Five Blood Knights, the Royal Standard of Strigos or something, and the thrall with Blood Drinker will see you through. Either it'll kill everything in sight, or attract so much fire that the rest of the army has a chance to do something.

Of course, if you're evil like me you'll have a Terrorgheist flapping around as well to cause even more havoc... :devil2:

 

[craigo07]

A varghulf with regen supporting one flank and that unit combo on the other sounds too goood to be true! In larger game I will take a terrorgheist.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

A varghulf with regen supporting one flank and that unit combo on the other sounds too goood to be true! In larger game I will take a terrorgheist.

And both units have the Vampire rule so you can keep your vampires fairly central and still march.

If you're totally crazy, however, you'll have a Lord on TG, the Knights, and a Varghulf all on the same flank.... oh yeah.