WHFB - 7th Helm of Commandment

[Gutbusterr]

Hey guys,

Helm of Commandment: If the wearer is not in combat, one friendly undead unit within 12" (not mounts) may use his weapon skill instead of their own for that close combat phase.

Question is this. When do i have to say this to have it take effect? Can i declare charges, do my vampires combat and if the vampire wins and makes it out of combat for w/e reason. Can i THEN use it on a unit that is within 12inch or did i forefit my chance to use it because i declared a charge.

I ask this because im thinking of a situation where i have a unit of ghouls to my right that is in combat and my vamp to the left with Blood knights who is in combat. The vamp goes first and usually decimates his target (completely wiping out the unit he hits or makes them run and he runs them down). Then i go to my ghouls combat, can i THEN elect to use the helm? Thats evil if i can!

Also can i use the helmet outside of my turn (meaning during my opponents turn) providing that the vampire is still outside of combat? Its not a spell and it doesnt say on my turn only? So if a unit charges said ghouls can i say, OK they use my vamps WS! (provided hes outside combat himself)

The potential here is scary....

-Gutbusterr

 

[Aegis]

The answer you seek is in the vampire counts FAQ. Yes you could use the helm on the second combat, as fights are resolved in order, and he is no longer in combat. The second part of that...... i would say yes, as it says for that close combat phase.

"If the wearer is not in combat,one friendly undead unit within 12" (not mounts) may use his Weapon Skill instead of their own for that close combat phase."

Truth be told, i've never used the helm, so its never come up for me.

 

[Ricw]

Wow I hope it works like that. I'll have to check the FAQ. Around here they make me declare the item during the magic phase.

 

[Gutbusterr]

Ricw


Its a magic item but it does not say its a spell, not even a bound spell! So it cant even be dispelled! I would call them out at your game store if i was you man.

Aegis,

I didnt realize it was in the FAQ, wow that is impressive to say the least! I believe i will now build a caster vamp with this helmet and use it on some ghouls!

-Gutbuster

 

[Ricw]

used like that I think i'm going to use it to make a hard as nails gg unit on offense and use to keep my zombies from being shredded on defense. with a ws of 7 they should take many fewer casulties. Think of what you can do with the powerdice saved.

I would go so far as to say that the helm may be the best overall magic item in the book for me.

 

[Gutbusterr]

If it works like that on defense then.....wow, haha! check it..

A vamp lord with the helm so WS 7

Combine that with a GG unit using Great weapons who has a vamp hero with Blood drinker and you got yourself a GG unit who swings back at WS7 str 6

OFFENSE
4(5) attacks with 5 man rank + seneschal WS7 now and STR6 (greatweapon) oh and there killing blow!

1 vamp hero with red fury + blood drinker (possibly 6 attacks at WS7 Str 5)

DEFENSE
40 man block zombie with WS7....used to hold a unit in combat so the GG can hit em on the side during offense!

OMG

-Gutbusterr

 

[Aegis]

Aegis,

I didnt realize it was in the FAQ, wow that is impressive to say the least! I believe i will now build a caster vamp with this helmet and use it on some ghouls!

-Gutbuster

Question 6 in the artefacts of death section. I usually use Count Mannfred, so no helmet for me = /

 

[Geraint]

It's a fantastic item. As Gutbusterr says: WS 7 GG with great weapons are awesome. Combine it with a corpse cart and you're always striking first as well.
I have no idea why anyone would think that the Helm should be declared during the magic phase - it's not a spell or a bound item. You might as well declare Blood Drinker or a Sword of Striking.

 

[Ricw]

Aegis, I've used Mannfred and put the helm on a regular vampire.. WS 6 is still nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Aegis]

i usually spend to much time animating corpses and chucking artillery from my general to notice >.>

 

[Trentonator]

Alright, I'll do the clarification.

No you don't declare it, think of it as a passive ability, it's always on unless your vamp is in combat.
Thus, it works in both turns not only your own.

Also, just a little tip, give the Grave Guard the Banner of the Barrows, they'll normally hit and wound on 2's.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Trentonator is correct, about both issues. If you have also giver your Grave Guard GW they will would mostly on 2+ as well and turn them into a veritable killing machine especially with Danse macabre.

 

[Nicodemus]

Hello

Can't sleep, thinking about how too kick Nurgels ass.
Nurgels first spell Miasma of Pestilence do so all enemy models in base contact will get WS, S, T and A to 1, my questien is if I have a Vamp lord with Helm of Commandment and give the unit that's in base contact whit the Herald his WS, will the unit have WS 1 or the Vamps WS?

 

[Trentonator]

Good question...

Sadly I believe the miasma takes precedence. Solely because the vampire gives its weapon skill and the miasma reduces it. The Helm doesn't specifically increase the WS but the miasma directly reduces it.

That's just my take on it, could be completely wrong though.

 

[Nicodemus]

I was reading VCs faq and it say that if a unit is targeted by an enemy spell or ability which modifies the weapon skill of the unit and a vamp pass his WS to them, the unit will have his WS.

So they will have ws7.
This is great news, must just think out a tactic now. ^^

 

[midean]

Nice find Nico...:thumb: I'll have to make sure to remember that one!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yup - you would have WS7 as per the FAQ, so get kicking some nurgle butt!

 

[Kaladas Harkon]

They'll still be Strength, Toughness, Initiative and Attacks 1, so being WS7 won't really help much. IMO that spell is so damn overpowered, it removes all possibility of character hunting. The only thing I can see killing a Herald with that cast is an unkillable Dreadlord with the Crimson Death.

 

[TMS]

Fortunately each Nurgle wizard is only capable of throwing that spell once per turn, so it can be focused on to make sure that it does not go through. Especially when it comes to the hero's, being lvl 1's and all..

 

[Nicodemus]

Block with a 25-30 grave guards, attack with Blood knights with banner of hellfire from behind and BANG Nurge will feel the power from the Undead. ^^

Risky and hard but it's almost the only way.

My friend play 17 Plaguebearers with Icon of Eternal Virulence one lvl 1 Nurgel Herald BSB whit Banner of Unholy Victory and Noxious Vapours and one more lvl 1 Nurgel Herald with Noxious Vapours, and one of them also have Slime Trail. And both on palanquins. He got more units but this one is a pain in the ass...

Hard to kill but not impossible.
His army are small in 2000pt so my blood knights can get around if I can hold the nurglins away.
Sorry for the of topic. ^^

 

[N.I.B]

You know there's a reason as to why the ETC restrictions state that Helm of Commandment on a lord takes up a character slot - it's because it's awesome.

 

[Helvegr]

So since the FAQ states that the vampire with the helm must be in base to base contact (and thus in combat) in order to not use the helm, can I place a vampire with this helm in say the last rank of a unit of GG? Or better yet right in the middle?

I'm still pretty new and am not all that certain about positioning when a character joins a unit. Part of me thinks that if he is in the back rank, he couldn't use the helm, nor could he cast IoN on anything.

I'm just trying to find the best way to position a vampire with this helm.

 

[Onikaigo]

I'm not sure on positioning a Character anywhere but the front rank. It was my understanding that you have to place all special models in the front rank, unless fleeing from challenges.

I typically run a Vampire like that with Wings, helm, some armor and the Sceptre and march block/Warmachine hunt. It's amazingly stupid how many resources someone will send after a Lone vampire with the Helm. It's almost playing their army for them.

 

[midean]

LRB pg # 73. Characters that are not in the front rank cannot use magic or magic items.

 

[Ergo-Sum]

Helvegr - The usual way to position a helm vampire/lord is either in a bunker or running around on some sort of flying mount/moving fast/flying themselves. You can sometimes do some cunning movement around a bunker with your helm vampire if you think you might get flank charged, to allow you to still use it. Check out the FAQ for vampires on the GW site, where they explain what you are allowed to do in this regard.