Help against the WOC

[Nosfeatu]

Alright, so I am playing a moddified blood in the badlands campaign and cannot for the life of me seem to beat the Warriors of choas. we each have three armies at 1500 points and no matter what I try, they win.

I suppose a good portion of my losses are due to a few rule miss understandings (like how dispelling some spell lasting more than one turn works) The only real things I can tell you about the way his armies are built is that he likes khorne and has a lvl4 caster in every army. In the paticular army I am having touble with he is using wulfric with a group of maraders, chaos knights, a warshrine, a hell cannon, chaos warriors, and a giant.

Please help, if I dont get help soon I'll be forcefully ejected from the game:grave: due to the loss of all my territory.

 

[eggsPR]

Alright, so I am playing a moddified blood in the badlands campaign and cannot for the life of me seem to beat the Warriors of choas. we each have three armies at 1500 points and no matter what I try, they win.

I suppose a good portion of my losses are due to a few rule miss understandings (like how dispelling some spell lasting more than one turn works) The only real things I can tell you about the way his armies are built is that he likes khorne and has a lvl4 caster in every army. In the paticular army I am having touble with he is using wulfric with a group of maraders, chaos knights, a warshrine, a hell cannon, chaos warriors, and a giant.

Please help, if I dont get help soon I'll be forcefully ejected from the game:grave: due to the loss of all my territory.

Although I have no idea what you've been fielding, here's a start.

GET A TERRORGHEIST, ASAP!

You'll never look at a Chaos Knights the same way again

 

[Yanda]

WoC is a good matchup.

- Screams (Banshee, Terrorgeist, Mortis Engine, 100 Pt Sword) Low LD.
- Ethereal (Spirit Hosts, Wraiths, Hexwraiths, Black Coach?) Limited Magical Attacks.
- Terror (Terrorgeist, Wraiths, Vargaulf, Hexwraiths, Supernatural Horror) Low LD
- High Strength - Vs Chaos Armor

 

[Johnny-Crass]

How is he fitting a Hell Cannon Warshrine and Giant into 1500?

 

[Xander]

Yeah... Each of those are about 200 points, and they're all rare... Considering he has 375 points for rare, I don't understand how he affords those in a list.

 

[rothgar13]

Yeah, doesn't sound like a legal list.

One thing that is a bit questionable in the advice given above, however, is Chaos' "limited magical attacks". Given that Chaos Knights all have magical attacks (because the Lance is TERRIBLE and should never be taken) and their penchant for placing incredibly hard-to-kill characters on Discs, that's not really true. They can take care of Ethereal chaff.

Screams, on the other hand, they struggle with. The only list that can really deal with those is the "I'm going to bring 100+ Marauders" one.

 

[Nosfeatu]

Oh, on the subject of the weird points, I think it was a random event roll that gave him X amount of bonus points to use. Any how, I do use a terrorgheist in at leasst two of my armies, and was thinking a bout adding a mortis engine to one of them, I also have krell and Heinrich in the third army.

 

[Burnanation]

If you use your TG to take out the knights then ghosts, wraiths, and banshees will have a grand time not getting hurt. Wraiths will be great against anything that is armored up.

 

[rothgar13]

Yeah, Warriors of Chaos don't like getting screamed at. Reminds them of their traumatic childhoods or something.

 

[Yanda]

One thing that is a bit questionable in the advice given above, however, is Chaos' "limited magical attacks". Given that Chaos Knights all have magical attacks (because the Lance is TERRIBLE and should never be taken) and their penchant for placing incredibly hard-to-kill characters on Discs, that's not really true. They can take care of Ethereal chaff.

If your letting Chaos Knights fight against them then yes your going to lose, and you should lose for being an bad player and letting that happen.
Also Characters... well duh.

Thats like saying oh no 1 unit has Flaming attacks, I better not take anything in my list with Regen.

 

[rothgar13]

That's not what I'm saying, though. What I am saying is that you can't really consider them lacking in the magical attacks department.

 

[Azactoth]

Their agressive Magic is the key disavantage of Chaos... Chaos Wizards are Good as offensive casters, but they are not good as defensive ones... Use Lore of the Shadows...

-Powered up signature spell: Most important spell... Without their superrior Ws and I, Chaos Warriors are easyer preys...

-Okkam's mind Razzor: Cast on Ghoul unit... S5 2 poison attack very effective against chaos warriors... (3+ to wound, 6+ Armoursave)

-Withering: without higher T, they can easly killed...

-The Enfeebling foe: without higher S, They cant kill easly...

-Pit of Shades: Combinate with signature Spell and wipe out a Warrior Regiment...

 

[GhoulKing505]

Try ghouls with a razor standard BSB. Using the staff of damnation is a nice combo as well. Then use any other spell to either buff them or hex your opponent.

Also I began taking a combat vampire lord general with the ogre blade simply to take out high armored units such as chaos warriors. Stick him in with the ghouls and you can say goodbye to anything they throw at it. Can't afford a vampire lord? Use a vampire with a GW armor of silvered steel and red fury. A cheaper but easy solution. You can also add the luck stone to that build if you'd like.

This combined with all the other things said in the thread should work in your favor quite nicely.

 

[darkcyde]

Zombies. Many of them. Just continue pouring out guys after guys after guys. Back this up with a decent GG unit with sword and board and you can get a good flow going here. I would try to have some corpse carts so you can spam always strikes first.

Ghouls are a TERRIBLE choice IMO for their 10pt cost. Sure they are toughness 4, but they are hitting on 3s, killing on 4s at 10pts and no save, or you can have 2 skeletons for that same points, that you are getting a 6+/6+ after they wound on 1 better. SO if they have 20 attacks on you, 15 are hitting 7/8 ghouls are dead.
Against Skeletons they are hitting 15times, wounding 10 times. You are saving 1-2 so they are killing 8/9 These are all averages. So you are basicaly getting 1 MORE dead skeleton. So numberwise Skeletons are going to pay off more than Ghouls. Now if its Zombies, its 10 dead rather than 7/8 but you are paying less and bringing back more. Both these units can go over their starting number as well.

Against Chaos you want out lasting ability IMO not offense explosions.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

With Skellies you can Fearbomb warriors easy, and since MOT is more popular than MOK or MOS it should work fairly well.

 

[rothgar13]

As a WoC player, I must disagree with that statement. I can also pull up some tourney lists to prove my point. The Mark of choice is Khorne, because Halberds with 3 attacks a pop murder most things. Tzeentch is a fine choice for a bunker, but not so much for rank-and-file troops. I'd expect to see the Halberds and MoK.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Really...I play three different WoC players and two of them use mainly tzeentch and the other uses mainly nurgle (because he plays a lot of ogres I'd imagine). Haven't seen a lot of khorne except on chariots and marauders

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I see around these parts Khorne Marauders and that is about it. Sword and Board warriors are all the rage up here

 

[rothgar13]

S&B Warriors are frankly lackluster. Sure, they don't die much, but they don't kill much, and Warriors don't have the luxury of static CR to rely on. If you run the math-hammer on them, they're consistently putting out inferior CR results than the Khornies. The only problem is that you have to convert them or cough up the $$$ for the Halberds from GW separately, which is annoying.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

My local tourny scene does not comp the chosen star at all.... So that is your damage dealer:slapface:

 

[rothgar13]

Yeah, and you can't even Fear-bomb that one, because it causes Terror. Chosenstar + 2 giant blocks of Marauders + double Warshrine + unkillable Chaos Lord is arguably the strongest WoC has to offer. It's definitely tough to deal with.

 

[Chaos_Born]

How would one create an unkillable chaos lord; what stuff has he got that makes him so durable. I've heard of the unkillable dreadlord, but in chaos lord form:O. That sounds like possibly the most terrifying charater ever.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Tali Pres and MOT come mot mind, maybe runeshield? Honestly I never heard of this guy before

 

[rothgar13]

...Really? You guys haven't seen the unkillable Chaos Lord before? He kits out like so:

Chaos Lord, Biting Blade, Bloodcurdling Roar, Crown of Command, Disc of Tzeentch, Dragonhelm, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Stream of Corruption, Talisman of Preservation

That bad boy flies, has a 1+ armor save, a 3+ Ward save (2+ vs. flaming), and is Stubborn. Basically, you jam him into something that you don't ever want to see move again, and he takes care of the rest. He can also kill a similarly equipped Dreadlord without much trouble, because he'll pumping 2D6 S1 no armor save hits into him every WoC Shooting Phase and his raw stats are superior. He also has a Breath Weapon to help him polish off units of more fragile troops.

It's a character that most armies (but particularly VC) finds supremely difficult to deal with. Only a Terrorgheist can truly threaten him, and even then he gets that 3+ Ward against every Wound.

 

[Chaos_Born]

Wow.

How many points does that bad boy take to form.