Help Beating dirty WoC list

[Patrunkenphat7]

Hey guys, on Monday I am playing against a 3000 point WoC list running the following units:

-flying lvl 4 of death Nurgle DP
-BSB on disc, Mark of Tzeench
-Throgg
-2 Chimeras
-2 units of 3 Skullcrushers
-1 Hellcannon
-18 trolls in core

Help?

 

[John Rainbow]

Ugh! That's pretty horrid. At least he only has one core unit which is easy to chaff up and redirect. Concentrate on the other units.

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

I am running UL (so my Vamp Lord doesn't have to be on Lore of Vamps), so my first thought it to run 2 Terrorgheist, a small unit of Vargheists, and a level 4 lore of Death Vampire Lord on a Zombie Dragon. These units give me the best chance to take out the Nurgle DP and Chimeras quickly as long as he doesn't blow something up with the Hellcannon early...

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

that troll unit....purple sun it and watch him cry.
do trolls have magical vomit still?

 

[Steapa]

Hey guys, on Monday I am playing against a 3000 point WoC list running the following units:

-flying lvl 4 of death Nurgle DP
-BSB on disc, Mark of Tzeench
-Throgg
-2 Chimeras
-2 units of 3 Skullcrushers
-1 Hellcannon
-18 trolls in core

Help?

5 Units of 100 zombies. One Lore of Shadow caster, One vamps for mass rez. Terrorgheists / Hexwraiths. Let the trolls hit your endless hordes of zombro's.

Then Cast Okhams.

You could have a countdown. Yep you sure killed the living crap out of 40 of them. 460 more to go!

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

Haha unfortunately I "only" have 180 Zombies...

 

[Seneschal]

Double TG, morghast Harbingers on the less killy units, varghiests, either a ZD or Hellsteed VL with Nightshroud, GW, QB, RF, Lore of Death Master Necromancer, crap ton of wolves (a few units of 7 with champ throw in for the conga line trick against the DP and BSB), possible zombie bricks to hold up the earthbound enemies.

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

Do you think Nightshroud plus GW is better than Shield plus Ogre Blood? Getting the re-rolls off Quickblood seems important, and the only think Nightshroud is going to be doing against him is stopping Sword of Striking on his DP.

 

[Demian]

Facing the Daemon Prince head on with your Vampire Lord, I'd suggest you buff your armor saves up when facing him. 1+/4++ to survive. Now, you can use either Dreadknight to match his WS 9 and have a bit more survival, or just go all the way with Master Strike and pray for a HKB.

Death magic is your best ally, with Purple Sun on the Trolls. If you're playing End Times magic, consider having a Shadow caster as well, for Pit of Shades.

Dual terrorgheists are always the right answer against WoC, and couple that with a Casket of Souls to down the DP as soon as possible.

Last, why not play Nagash and summon a terrorgheist per turn, or 3 Mortis Engines and match Regen with Regen.

 

[The Sun King]

Purple sun that army off the board.

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

Playing against him in an hour, so we'll find out how it goes! There is no way to make Lord on Zombie Dragon have an armor save better than a 2+, right?

 

[Eternal Salvation]

So I'm quite curious now:
what did you take, and how did it go?

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

I took 2 TG and a fully-kitted blender Vamp Lord on a Dragon with level 4 of death among the other usual goodies. It was a long, bloody draw (I was up 52 points at the end of turn 6). The most notable part of the game was that I killed his level 4 death Nurgle DP and he killed my Vamp Lord on turn 4 (after I kill a chariot, a Chimera, and his Tzeentch BSB on a disc with the VL). He ended the game with a Skullcrusher unit with ONE wound on it thanks to my scream being 1 point short... Still really fun game even though the win was just outside my grasp.

 

[Eternal Salvation]

Sounds epic! How did the lords go down? Fighting against each other?

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

Sounds epic! How did the lords go down? Fighting against each other?

VL went down in a multiple combat with a Skullcrusher unit, a Chimera, and a BSB on disc. He had 1 turn of a resolved Soulblight which was really the deciding factor.

He sent his Troll horde after the big chunk of my army and used all his flying monsters and characters + the Skullcrushers to surround the VL in a way that forced me into getting into combat somewhere. Even though he took down my VL, his aggressive tactics against it allowed my sole TG (other one had been killed by Hellcannon) to wipe up a lot of his units.

I nuked his his Nurgle DP with a Terrorgheist scream after resolving a crucial Doom and Darkness on him.

The game was very epic - amazing that it came down to 1 wound after all the carnage (rolled a 5 on the 2d6 for the scream during the final turn, 6+ is what I needed to win!).

 

[Eternal Salvation]

So close! Sounds like a fun fight!

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

DP hate screams, especially in contact with OTS.

Purp sun is cheese I always prefer shadow. The Remains in Play will help you control the magic phase. Hes going to try and fly over to your line and purp sun on turn 1, so be the better man and beat him without it.

What I'd have brought was a BK bus with flaming banner with blender + mini blender. Lots of wolves/zombies/spirits to dictate how the fight goes. Probably fly a Tgheist to take out the hellcannon asap, while slamming into chimera and melting them hard.

Throgg has to challenge, accept with champion. Then he can only puke on one guy. Then your vamps melt most of the trolls, thy are fleeing for sure. If for some sad reason you get hit on the flank, you can make way with your vamps and still win almost any combat.

For vampire you want a standard Ogre Blade, OTS, ASF, RF. The game is won with your lord so you don't want to skimp out on points for him. You need to melt things before they can react.

In this list, even with an annoying dragonhelm DP you can get in contact then scream at him and very often thats it for him.

With so much regen, hexwraiths are fun especially with BK bus who can keep up with them. Not a lot of magic to stop them. Throggs puke is not magical. If you can pin down the DP all your ethereal units can pretty much have a field day. A single SH can hold down a chimera, skullcrusher or any (non-demon) char without magical weapons for the entire game. Bring a ton of SH, Banshee and cairn wraith with BSB and Morghast and you can nearly paralyze their entire army.

 

[Ohn]

DP hate screams, especially in contact with OTS.
For vampire you want a standard Ogre Blade, OTS, ASF, RF. The game is won with your lord so you don't want to skimp out on points for him. You need to melt things before they can react.

If your VLord have a magic weapon he wont benefit from Banner of Eternal Flame and since he gonna strikes before Black Knights, Trolls gonna have their regen saves against him. Then if you plan to use VLord to kill some Trolls I would recommand a Great Weapon, QB, RF, ToP, Glittering Scale, OTS and try to get rerolls from Vanhels.

I agree with everything else EternallyUndying said.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I've played against this list before, and it's certainly a bitch to beat. He's so fast that you're kind of back on your heels, so it's tough. There's no magic formula, no silver bullets, you've just gotta do what you can.

DP hates screams, as others have said. Don't put your VL in there against him as he'll just die. I like to try and lure him in with something scary like hex wraiths then counter-charge with skeletons and scream at him while tanking him with challenges as much as possible.

Chimeras are mean, but they're also slow and have low wounds. Vargheists might do good work. If you're undead legions then make sure to havea 3-pack of flaming skeletons in the midst. That's the only way to take on the trolls too.

As for the trolls, your best bet is to just avoid them. They're tough and mean, and will out-grind most anything. But they're unwieldly and can be chaffed easily enough. Raise dead + direwolves + spirit hosts. Only Throgg has magic attacks (his vomit), so keep that in mind. I prefer to feed that unit chaff and pick everything up.

The crushers are where your VL should be going, btw. He smashes skullcrushers.

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

If your VLord have a magic weapon he wont benefit from Banner of Eternal Flame and since he gonna strikes before Black Knights, Trolls gonna have their regen saves against him.

SOB I didn't know this

So QB w/ Great Weapon is your best bet. You save some points at least but now you have to rely on VDM for your re-rolls, so I'd go with a Book of Arkhan to be safe.

 

[Ohn]

SOB I didn't know this

It's specified in the Flaming Attacks Special Rule (BRB, p69).

I just read their rules and trolls should easily eat a Black Knight Bus with their vomit... I guess then your best bet could rely on Lore of Death. Purple Sun is, for sure, realy effective against Trolls. Furthermore, you have access to Doom and Darkness, it makes your screams even more powerful.

Only Throgg has magic attacks (his vomit), so keep that in mind.

I didnt read anything about his vomit being magical, he seems to have a normal non-magical vomit (like other trolls) plus a breath vomit (non-magical).

Ethereal seems very effective to lock his unit then. You could try a pack of zombies (for static resolution) with a front line of 5 Carn Wraiths/Banshee. Sounds a bit cheesy IMO.

 

[Patrunkenphat7]

I honestly feel like there is no way to beat 18 trolls + Throgg, even with a blender bus, but that is OK because I don't have to. At the end of the game he agreed that so many trolls were unnecessary and plans on playing a 4x3 group of 12 plus Throgg next time to have some points for 3 chariots to meet min core. That will make things even more difficult more me, because I think a chunk of those trolls in the last game were just wasted points. All they did was kill Zombies.

I am going to try some shadow magic next time for fun. I think the death magic is insanely good though because spirit leeching any of the Chimera's outside IP range is huge. Doom and Darkness is also the nut if I get it off on his general. Once he is on the back foot using his power dice to dispel it on his turn, I feel like I've gotten the upper hand in the magic phases.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I didnt read anything about his vomit being magical, he seems to have a normal non-magical vomit (like other trolls) plus a breath vomit (non-magical).

My bad, I'm confusing him with the trolls from Tamurkhan.

But yeah, I've played against the 18+Throgg troll army before. Just fed it free zombies all day and killed the rest of his army. There's really no reason to fight it ever. 18 trolls is a HUGE unit. That's what...54 wounds, plus throgg's? Yipes.

 

[Asmodeus]

I honestly feel like there is no way to beat 18 trolls + Throgg

Throgg dont have any magical attacks. His Copious vomit only gives him breath weapon wth S5 - mundane one. He also have normal vomit rule, as other trolls have - also not magical. Ask him for army book next time. Interestingly, both breath and vomit can be used in the same combat phase - frightening...but not to etheral. 800+ unit without single magical attacks against the army with etherals - well...such stupidity should be rewarded.

Advice to deal with other stuff. Get into air. Playing on UL and End Times rules? Try to bring 3 VL on winged nightmares and simply blend them with support of pair of TBats.
Dont bring characters on big monsters - you still will be having trouble in killing that nurgle DP, or that horde of trolls, and hellcannon can score direct hit on such big footprint. Keep your vampires on small, cavalry footprints - hellcannon follow the rules for stonethrower, so if he not roll hit(and missfire), he will not autokill any character with single S5 hit without multi. If you still fear that demonic warmachine, keep your flying circus near hexwraiths - they will grant LoS rule on 4+, and hellcannon shot is also not magical - so no harm here. Each shot not concentrated on TBats will be probably waste of time.