hero vamps - survivability and damage mutually exclusive?

[hsnyder]

Hey guys. I've got a low points game this afternoon and decided to take a wight king + necro as my heroes.

It just seems to me like the hero level vamp is really soft. Now it has been a while since I played, so this is all just how it looks "on paper", but a vampire seems to be either 200 points of glass cannon or 200 points of "sort of hard to kill" character that probably wont earn his 200 back..

Any startegies/builds which make this guy more reliably able to earn his points and not die?

Thanks

 

[RarerMonsters]

The main problem you're going to have with the Hero Level Vamp is that you're paying a premium for magic levels which you aren't necessarily using.

The same is true of the VL, but the extra wound, point of toughness, and magic item allowance make him much more survivable and able to last till the end of the match and make his points back.

At hero level, the Wight King is better as a pure combat and the necro is better as a pure caster.

If you want to run the Vamp Hero, though, you have a few options.

Coven Throne: Not appropriate for a low points game, but the Dragula ups the killing power to 11, is survivable itself, and you won't lose the points if only the rider dies.

Mounted: Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Sword of Might. Quickblood. 1+ rerollable is as good as a 4+ ward vs things with S6 or lower. In turn, you'll hit back at rerollable S6. (The reasoning for QB over RF is that, as a hero, you're getting about the same increase in wounds out of the rerolls and giving yourself an edge over a few key matches, like Great Weapon Elves. Also, shaving points off of heroes where possible makes a difference in the long run.

Psuedo-Blender: Talisman of Protection; Red Fury; Great Weapon
Run him on the corner of a horde formation. Against anything smaller than a horde, you can ensure only one file gets to attack him. The Talisman should be enough to protect you until you swing back and hopefully build up some face wreckage. T4 won't protect you from anything severe, but you can probably use this model to score some weaker units that a WK would probably have to spend a few turns hacking.

 

[DrunkenDane]

Im running one in a 1500 pts army at the moment. In the last game he was a real killing machine.
He has lvl 2, RF, Heavy armour, shield, barded nightmare and SoM. Running him with 8 Black knights creates a really mean unit in smaller games like 1500.

Im playing again tomorrow against High elves, so we will see if he pays off again, so far I can recommend him with knights!

 

[Kingside_Bishop]

Mounted: Barded Steed, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Sword of Might. Quickblood. 1+ rerollable is as good as a 4+ ward vs things with S6 or lower. In turn, you'll hit back at rerollable S6. (The reasoning for QB over RF is that, as a hero, you're getting about the same increase in wounds out of the rerolls and giving yourself an edge over a few key matches, like Great Weapon Elves. Also, shaving points off of heroes where possible makes a difference in the long run.

This is a really cool build, I think I'll try this out in an upcoming game...

 

[Larro]

Honestly, Hero Vamps ARE overpriced, and are extremely vulnerable - unless they are Mounted. The extra +2 Armor Save is huge. In a non-BK Bus build, you really only see *maybe* 1 Hero Vamp to give access to Aura of Dark Majesty in a Scream list, or help hold another Arcane Item, or maybe take Forbidden Lore. The reason? They're overpriced and the easiest 200+ points to get in an otherwise tough nut to crack.

- Larry

 

[hsnyder]

I do like the mounted and dawnstone build quite a lot. I like dawnstone builds in general actually. TBH my only real problem with this is that I'm not convinved that black knights fit into my list really.. I don't like the idea of having the one very obvious target, and I definitely don't like the idea of a black knight deathstar... My thinking was more revolving around one of these guys on foot. I'll do more thinking about my list, and I suppose if black knights make it in then this guy will go in there.

EDIT: Actually, that guy could technically go in a unit of dire wolves, no? Put him on a hellsteed and send him small unit hunting...

 

[RarerMonsters]

I do like the mounted and dawnstone build quite a lot. I like dawnstone builds in general actually. TBH my only real problem with this is that I'm not convinved that black knights fit into my list really.. I don't like the idea of having the one very obvious target, and I definitely don't like the idea of a black knight deathstar... My thinking was more revolving around one of these guys on foot. I'll do more thinking about my list, and I suppose if black knights make it in then this guy will go in there.

EDIT: Actually, that guy could technically go in a unit of dire wolves, no? Put him on a hellsteed and send him small unit hunting...

Well, the downside of the mounted build is that you basically do need to go into black knights to make much sense. Dire Wolves are way too fragile to support him, (they're more likely to kill him by giving up Combat Res)

If you run Blood Knights, he's basically a 200 point unit champion.

The Hellsteed is an interesting option. You go down to a 2+ armor (which makes more of a difference than you might think) and you can get shot to hell.You're basically going for the Brettonian/Empire pegasus hero at twice the price, but if you play him well and get lucky, you may just be able to pull it off.

As an aside, consider running your Hellsteed in a unit of Dire Wolves for turn one to prevent him getting shot to hell by BS shooting. Then, charge him out Turn 2 to get him behind enemy lines.

 

[hsnyder]

As an aside, consider running your Hellsteed in a unit of Dire Wolves for turn one to prevent him getting shot to hell by BS shooting. Then, charge him out Turn 2 to get him behind enemy lines.

That was what I was thinking. The direwolves are just an arrow screen. Could potentially put summon creatures of the night on him though, in which case the little tag team might be able to hunt smaller units (different combats of course).

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Im sure charas cant join warbeast units

 

[hsnyder]

page 97 in the BRB says they're allowed to join units of "beasts"