Hexwraiths in groups of 10?

[najo]

Except the rule the FAQ is clarifying is one sentence. It says models with vampiric, ethereal or that are large creatures only every recover one wound per casting of IoN.

The RULE has the three types together.

The FAQ clearing up the confusion of the rule, not errataing it, uses the vampire part of the rule as an example. The problem with the FAQ isn't the answer, its the way the question is phrased as it asks only about vampires. That doesn't change that the rule being cleared up is one sentence.

With the FAQ answer, we can return to the rule and say to ourselves "this models with" actually was referring to the unit as a whole. Then you read how they say vampiric, ethereal and large creatures together, and its very clear that the rule wants those treated the same


We all know that those three types of units are being referred to at the same time and we know that GW thinks they answered it sufficiently. My problem with players continuing to try a play hexwraiths like they are black knights is that instead of using them properly and giving real solid advice on using them, they basically abuse a very slim rules loop hole that really isn't there and then instead of playing with the rules as they basically are written, they twist the oversight of GW to cheat.

I have alot of respect for the good players' skill here and I rather those players play by the rules all the way, and let their knowledge and experience shine through instead of misinforming players on how hexwraiths are used and healed.

 

[najo]

And for the record, I run two units of five hexwraiths and I know how to heal my varghiests with IoN and then the lore attribute if a model is still down a wound.

 

[rothgar13]

I don't know if I'd ever favor 10-wide Hexwraiths. That's just begging a layered deployment to jam you.

Everything moves up pretty swiftly.

Not your deployment, the enemy's. If someone plunks down a 10-wide Hexwraith unit against me, my goal becomes to deny them a landing spot against their preferred target, and then force the Hexwraiths to either run after chaff, or try to reposition and risk being taken out by a charge from a ranked block that has a dude with a magic weapon in it.

 

[kevin.hopkins7]

My problem with players continuing to try a play hexwraiths like they are black knights is that instead of using them properly and giving real solid advice on using them, they basically abuse a very slim rules loop hole that really isn't there and then instead of playing with the rules as they basically are written, they twist the oversight of GW to cheat.

I have alot of respect for the good players' skill here and I rather those players play by the rules all the way, and let their knowledge and experience shine through instead of misinforming players on how hexwraiths are used and healed.

I agree, in fact wholeheartedly. I only raise my Hexwraiths 1 at a time (instead of 1+level), unfortunately RAW reigns supreme. The fact that it says "models" instead of "units"(in the ION description), and the further confusion from the FAQ, is just not concise rules writing.

Like it or not, that's RAW. You can call it twisting the rules, but it's more like playing EXACTLY by the rules. I don't recommend anyone play like this, especially if you want to have fun games, and friends to play with.

 

[najo]

Its not RAW. You can't with a straight face read that sentence in IoN, then read the FAQ and then heal a unit of blood knights one way and a unit of hexwraiths another.

 

[bigbadbat]

Ummmmm... najo, that is 100% exactly the definition of RAW. You are speaking from RAI.

 

[najo]

I would agree if the ethereal wasn't in the same sentence as the vampiric, or if the FAQ were errata. But since the FAQ is clearing up the sentence, its more RAW at this point.

 

[Tomfoolery]

Except the rule the FAQ is clarifying is one sentence. It says models with vampiric, ethereal or that are large creatures only every recover one wound per casting of IoN.

The RULE has the three types together.


I have alot of respect for the good players' skill here and I rather those players play by the rules all the way, and let their knowledge and experience shine through instead of misinforming players on how hexwraiths are used and healed.

Correct IoN only heals 1 wound per model and a Hexwraith only has 1 wound. I'm not seeing the problem here.

Also correct it does list the three types together and a Spirit Host doesn't regain wounds in such a way.

I don't think there is any misinformation being spread. GW addressed IoN on these units very clearly in the FAQ. They specifically stated Blood Knights could not be raised in such a way. They said nothing about Hexwraiths. Trying to say any player using the ruling in a manner like 1+WL is misinterpreting the rule could be argued that you are doing the exact same thing. Your understanding doesn't mold and conform subjective reality in this case. What we have here is a disagreement about a ruling with grey area. This isn't a reason to disrespect someone. It is something to be debated until a arbitrator comes in and sorts it out (in this case GW).

 

[Shadow of the Night]

To and earlier point, about the cannonball, if the cannon is placed so that it bounces through a hexwraith unit 1st, then the shot would be wasted, the cannot still hits the unit, and a cannonball cannot hit more that one unit per bounce. Just because the cannonball cant hurt the hexwraiths doesn't discount that it hits the hexwraiths.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

A cannon can hit more than one unit per shot easy

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

To and earlier point, about the cannonball, if the cannon is placed so that it bounces through a hexwraith unit 1st, then the shot would be wasted, the cannot still hits the unit, and a cannonball cannot hit more that one unit per bounce. Just because the cannonball cant hurt the hexwraiths doesn't discount that it hits the hexwraiths.

Why cant a cannon hit two units like johnny said?

 

[najo]

I'm not looking to attack anyone. I deeply respect the advice, insight and skill of the players here. My point about the IoN grey area is its one sentence that is in question and that one rule equally applies to vampiric, ethereal and large. The rulebook doesn't single them out. The rule is math. Units x,y and z are 1 wound per casting.

The FAQ is not rewriting the rule, its answering the question of how to heal vampiric units. Errata in the faq are rule rewrites, the question section is clarity. Since the question clears up that by model with, they meant unit, you come back to that sentence and reread it. Its still x, y, z and one wound per casting. Because x, y, z are together in the rule, but they only address x in the clarifying of the rule, doesn't mean the rule can be interpreted two different ways for different units. That's really stretching the definition of RAW.

Why this is important is I rather when we are talking about these units, the tactics and strategies of using them is consistent instead of based on and relying on 1+wl to keep them alive, since more than likely that is wrong.

 

[kevin.hopkins7]

What if GW (in their infinite wisdom), decided that it was ok to keep the spell like this for ethereals, but only wanted to stop vampiric units from being raised as fast; They are a lot more powerful and don't need to be near the general to march... Ethereals might have been specifically left out, who knows?

We could relate this to the changes in unmodified leadership. That was a curve ball we weren't expecting either.......

It is important to know how they could be played.. You may come across this in a tourney.

Regardless, I'll still raise mine 1 at a time, let the RAW hardcore players raise 1+level..and lose comp points.

 

[najo]

I would agree if it was in errata, but its not. Its in the rules clarification section.

Regardless, what I would like is serious advice from pro level players on using hexwraiths without the IoN of 1+wl but just 1 instead. How does that change how you use them, keep them alive etc?

 

[Tomfoolery]

I agree as well about your assessment of the ruling using the term "units" but it doesn't say that. It says "models" and each Hexwraith is a single model composing a unit.

They specifically mentioned Blood Knights for a reason and that reason was to single them out. If they further expand the ruling to include Hexwraiths so be it, if they don't then it stands RAW imo.

Well if they can't be 1+WL then I would continue to run them as excellent chaff. If you play up IoN then I think they are the best bus in the game.