HKB vampiric skill

[Skittelz1981]

Ive never ever taken this skill.
I was toying around to build a vamplord built for challengekilling especially for lords on monsters or monstrous beasts.
Only question i got on this one is: is HKB still only happening on a roll of 6 to wound?
trading in 4 attacks for 1 that needs to hit and roll a 6 to wound seems abit pointless?

 

[Seneschal]

and that's why it's never taken. I personally wouldn't bother using it. Try it out if you're curious but don't expect good results. You are better off with OB.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Anyone else think this skill was only put in there for a guy with loaded dice?

 

[Skittelz1981]

another rofllol.....

 

[Mr. West]

HKB would be neat if it had a higher percentage to succed, or the vampiric power didn't require you to forego all attacks for only a single strike. But then, lots of people would surely cry ... like they always do.
*shrugs* On the other hand, it's kinda sweet to witness the expression on your opponents face when your Alarielle just asskicked his Kharybdiss, heh.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Id gladly pay a few points more for HKB if i were to keep all attacks. Id equip sword of bloodshed for 8 attacks and have a go at anything.

 

[HugoMac]

Id gladly pay a few points more for HKB if i were to keep all attacks. Id equip sword of bloodshed for 8 attacks and have a go at anything.

I don´t think it would be..."a few" :lol::lol::lol:

 

[VonDookie]

Just for fun...

If let's say... I put hkb on a vamp with red fury... ( I know, I know... I said just for fun! )...

I trade in all my attacks for a single hkb attack... I hit... I wound... But I don't hkb...

Red fury generates 1 new attack. Can I now trade this extra single attack for another go at hkb?...

In the same line of thought... If I trade my attacks in for the hkb and it DOES go off... Does red fury then generate new attacks based on my victims wounds profile?...

 

[Skittelz1981]

Just for fun...

If let's say... I put hkb on a vamp with red fury... ( I know, I know... I said just for fun! )...

I trade in all my attacks for a single hkb attack... I hit... I wound... But I don't hkb...

Red fury generates 1 new attack. Can I now trade this extra single attack for another go at hkb?...

In the same line of thought... If I trade my attacks in for the hkb and it DOES go off... Does red fury then generate new attacks based on my victims wounds profile?...

It would generate the amount of attacks according to the amounts of wounds caused. So, if its 1 HKB wound, its 1 attack extra. But most likely the multiwound model youre HKB-ing is already dead

And yes i think that extra attack could be considered another HKB attack, your trade off being 1:1 but im not sure

 

[Alabaster427]

Just for fun...

If let's say... I put hkb on a vamp with red fury... ( I know, I know... I said just for fun! )...

I trade in all my attacks for a single hkb attack... I hit... I wound... But I don't hkb...

Red fury generates 1 new attack. Can I now trade this extra single attack for another go at hkb?...

In the same line of thought... If I trade my attacks in for the hkb and it DOES go off... Does red fury then generate new attacks based on my victims wounds profile?...

It would generate the amount of attacks according to the amounts of wounds caused. So, if its 1 HKB wound, its 1 attack extra. But most likely the multiwound model youre HKB-ing is already dead

And yes i think that extra attack could be considered another HKB attack, your trade off being 1:1 but im not sure

Actually, if the model has full wounds and it's slain with HKB, it counts as having caused the number wounds needed to kill it, both for CR and Red Fury. So if it had 4 wounds remaining and you killed it with HKB, you would get four more attacks. However, RF doesn't work if you slay a model in a challenge.

 

[RarerMonsters]

The attacks it generates don't gain HKB inherently because the Vampire doesn't have or gain the rule, the Master Strike attack specifically has Killing Blow, and RF just gives you attacks.

As for swapping the RF attacks, it doesn't specify when you can swap attacks or when if you can swap "bonus attacks" or anything. I'd lean on the side of letting you do it because the language is generic, but I don't think there's any actual rule on this.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Hm. Wpuld that let you swap the extra RF attacks for an HKB attack if you didn't use HBK on the initial attacks?

 

[VonDookie]

Hm. Wpuld that let you swap the extra RF attacks for an HKB attack if you didn't use HBK on the initial attacks?

This line of thinking is along the lines of my earlier examples...

In this case though, if you whiff all of your profile attacks but one... And generate a single RF attack... Might as well trade that one attack in for the gusto of a hkb, right?...

 

[Blutsauger]

However, RF doesn't work if you slay a model in a challenge.

Sure it does. It's not as effective since you're limited to your overkill bonus, but you still generate the extra attacks.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Idd, no where does it say that RF wouldnt work in a challenge.
And no where does it say you can only trade in all your attacks for the HKB only once or that RF attacks are any different from a normal attack. Unsaved wounds simply cause extra attacks, which can be turned into 1 HKB if you so wish.
5 attacks become 1 with HKB. If that wounds a model with 3 wounds and is unsaved, the model dies and you gain another 3 attacks. Which you should be able to trade in again for 1 HKB and try the same trick on the next model in b2b.
Obviously in a challenge, RF would be pointless since if you HKB 1 attack, the enemy is dead. Against Monstrous infantry or cavalry this is another ballgame.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

The attacks it generates don't gain HKB inherently because the Vampire doesn't have or gain the rule, the Master Strike attack specifically has Killing Blow, and RF just gives you attacks.

As for swapping the RF attacks, it doesn't specify when you can swap attacks or when if you can swap "bonus attacks" or anything. I'd lean on the side of letting you do it because the language is generic, but I don't think there's any actual rule on this.

Wrong. Red Fury generates the exact same attack that caused the wound initially. This is why my expanding breath weapon theory worked so well. But it is still a stupid risky tradeoff

 

[Alabaster427]

Obviously in a challenge, RF would be pointless since if you HKB 1 attack, the enemy is dead. Against Monstrous infantry or cavalry this is another ballgame.

that's what I was meaning. If you kill the model, there is nothing left to attack. But could you potentially still use the extra attacks as Overkill even if the enemy was slain before you got to make them?

 

[RarerMonsters]

The attacks it generates don't gain HKB inherently because the Vampire doesn't have or gain the rule, the Master Strike attack specifically has Killing Blow, and RF just gives you attacks.

As for swapping the RF attacks, it doesn't specify when you can swap attacks or when if you can swap "bonus attacks" or anything. I'd lean on the side of letting you do it because the language is generic, but I don't think there's any actual rule on this.

Wrong. Red Fury generates the exact same attack that caused the wound initially. This is why my expanding breath weapon theory worked so well. But it is still a stupid risky tradeoff

I'll have to read them again... I still wouldn't consider using it but it's at least worth figuring out exactly how the mechanics work.

 

[Blutsauger]

Obviously in a challenge, RF would be pointless since if you HKB 1 attack, the enemy is dead. Against Monstrous infantry or cavalry this is another ballgame.

that's what I was meaning. If you kill the model, there is nothing left to attack. But could you potentially still use the extra attacks as Overkill even if the enemy was slain before you got to make them?

Yes, because all the attacks happen at the same initiative step, and therefore happen at the same time.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Say you cause 3 wounds and kill the model in challenge. RF gives 3 more attacks which you do anyway, if you then cause another 3 wounds you gwt your 5wound overkill since 5 is the maximum

 

[RarerMonsters]

The attacks it generates don't gain HKB inherently because the Vampire doesn't have or gain the rule, the Master Strike attack specifically has Killing Blow, and RF just gives you attacks.

As for swapping the RF attacks, it doesn't specify when you can swap attacks or when if you can swap "bonus attacks" or anything. I'd lean on the side of letting you do it because the language is generic, but I don't think there's any actual rule on this.

Wrong. Red Fury generates the exact same attack that caused the wound initially. This is why my expanding breath weapon theory worked so well. But it is still a stupid risky tradeoff

So, Johnny I'm a bit confused. The wording on Red Fury states "Makes a further attack", but what implies that that attack has the same qualities as the previously made attack?

 

[Skittelz1981]

What implies it is any different? . 'makes a further attack' thats just an extra attack... with the exact same qualities and rules.

 

[RarerMonsters]

What implies it is any different? . 'makes a further attack' thats just an extra attack... with the exact same qualities and rules.

That's true (albeit not really specific), I just thought there might also be a FAQ I wasn't aware of.

Fortunately I doubt this will ever be a real issue since nobody takes Master Strike

 

[Skittelz1981]

Mmm wel masterstriking a monster like a hydra or the orc arachid etc isnt useless.

 

[Blutsauger]

Mmm wel masterstriking a monster like a hydra or the orc arachid etc isnt useless.

You still need to roll a 6 to wound, with a single attack. It's pretty useless.