How do you feel so far about the new Empire book?

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Motars now are not worth the paper they are printed on, a points increase and a power down?
Thank bu no thanks, I will that a Helblaster Volley Gun, especially since it became more reliable as well.

 

[Chaos_Born]

I think against T3 low armour armies (so elves and skaven) the mortar is a worth while choice

 

[Yorga]

I would take two mortars and a Lvl4 shadow for some crop dusting....

It's all about layers of success. I try to keep my layers at one.

1) You need to pull the spell "The Withering" when you roll your spells or your mortars are useless.

2) You need to get the spell off in your magic phase or you mortars are useless.

3) You need to 'hit' with the stone thrower rules or your mortars are near useless.

Three layers of success. Too many varibles for my taste.

I think against T3 low armour armies (so elves and skaven) the mortar is a worth while choice

Again, need to build for 'all comers'. Too many T4 troops in tournaments.

 

[Friendly Dead]

Compared to the VC book the Empire book is a piece of Cruddified junk.

While the external balance is alright the internal balance is horrible

A combination of price increases the fact that they dont benefit from prayers or Hurricanums have made handgunenrs and crossbowmen extremely poor choices. In fact 8th edition seems ever more intend on wiping out BS-based shooting. Outriders and Helblasters are still worthwhile, but only because of the volume they they can throw out across a small frontage.

In my humble opinions Luminarks and Hurricanums are extremely daft concepts fluff-wise and game-wise, as they are only explained by "a wizard did it". Arguably the dummest units in the game even displacing the robo-horse and the skaven lasercannon.

Mortars and pistoliers are also very very poor choices. Pistoliers can neither shoot nor fight and have low LD for a hefty price tag and mortars are so obviously inferior to Pidgeoneers that it aint funny.

Also the book is full of combos that are so glaringly obvious that the book seems to be balanced around it. A witch hunter looks pretty pathetic without Van Hortsmanns Speculum and noone in their rigth mind will take a helblaster without engineer. State troops are overcosted and warrior priests are undercosted. Whether by using WP's or War Altar...if all your state troops doesnt have hatred you've bought an overpriced sack of crap

Some things are good including changes to the Griffon, the demigryph knight and the changes to detachments even if state troops seem way overpriced. The Steam Tank makes more sense as well and youll actually want to cast prayers


The new army book is actually worse than the previous incarnation due to several units being sub-par or just stupid concepts. The book is balanced about certain "synergies" which restricts your choices unless you want to nerf yourself and several things just doesnt make sense.

despite the good things in the book I find Cruddace really truly dropped the ball on this one. Impressive given how solid the old book was. can't have been easy..

 

[Strig]

Compared to the VC book the Empire book is a piece of Cruddified junk.

While the external balance is alright the internal balance is horrible

A combination of price increases the fact that they dont benefit from prayers or Hurricanums have made handgunenrs and crossbowmen extremely poor choices. In fact 8th edition seems ever more intend on wiping out BS-based shooting. Outriders and Helblasters are still worthwhile, but only because of the volume they they can throw out across a small frontage.

In my humble opinions Luminarks and Hurricanums are extremely daft concepts fluff-wise and game-wise, as they are only explained by "a wizard did it". Arguably the dummest units in the game even displacing the robo-horse and the skaven lasercannon.

Mortars and pistoliers are also very very poor choices. Pistoliers can neither shoot nor fight and have low LD for a hefty price tag and mortars are so obviously inferior to Pidgeoneers that it aint funny.

Also the book is full of combos that are so glaringly obvious that the book seems to be balanced around it. A witch hunter looks pretty pathetic without Van Hortsmanns Speculum and noone in their rigth mind will take a helblaster without engineer. State troops are overcosted and warrior priests are undercosted. Whether by using WP's or War Altar...if all your state troops doesnt have hatred you've bought an overpriced sack of crap

Some things are good including changes to the Griffon, the demigryph knight and the changes to detachments even if state troops seem way overpriced. The Steam Tank makes more sense as well and youll actually want to cast prayers


The new army book is actually worse than the previous incarnation due to several units being sub-par or just stupid concepts. The book is balanced about certain "synergies" which restricts your choices unless you want to nerf yourself and several things just doesnt make sense.

despite the good things in the book I find Cruddace really truly dropped the ball on this one. Impressive given how solid the old book was. can't have been easy..

I have yet to play with my new Empire army (never played under the old book either) but Cross-bowmen and handgunners can benefit from prayers.

If a Warrior Priest is in a parent unit, any detachments within 3" get the special rules the parent has. Hatred, Flaming, Stubborn etc. Also the War Alter AoE buff would effect all units (and characters in those units) in its bubble. Handgunners, xbowmen, artillery included.

- Strig

 

[Chaos_Born]

I thought shooty units could benefit from the plus to hit from the hurricanum. If not then that thing is a lot less good than I thought it was

 

[Seneschal]

Apparently fielding two units of four demigryphs is the way to go. A number of imperial generals swear by this setup.
I've only played two games against them with my TK's and they can cause some headaches for certain armies. Mortars are elf killers but I can't see myself regularly fielding them in my nascent Estalian Empire list.
Cav lists have made a comeback in 8th over the past few months due to them being immune to stomp/thunderstomp so I'm not surprised when I see empire lists fielding nothing but warmachines and mini Tony Starks.

 

[Friendly Dead]

I have yet to play with my new Empire army (never played under the old book either) but Cross-bowmen and handgunners can benefit from prayers.

If a Warrior Priest is in a parent unit, any detachments within 3" get the special rules the parent has. Hatred, Flaming, Stubborn etc. Also the War Alter AoE buff would effect all units (and characters in those units) in its bubble. Handgunners, xbowmen, artillery included.

- Strig

On a scale of 1-10 how much would you say crossbowmen and handgunners benefit from hatred, stubborn, prayers etc.? None of it makes them better at shooting, so its all pretty pointless if the prayers can hit em.

Oh and if you were wondering Hurricanums does not affect shooting.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

It is rare they will benefit from it but a ward is still nice any day of the week.
Personally the magic effecting both parents and detachments is great for other magic rather than prayers.

Hellblaster though got better in my eyes, its no longer a fast way to commit suicide.
But no most troop have began to cost more or become weaker and are now more dependent on characters.

 

[Friendly Dead]

It is rare they will benefit from it but a ward is still nice any day of the week.
Personally the magic effecting both parents and detachments is great for other magic rather than prayers.

Hellblaster though got better in my eyes, its no longer a fast way to commit suicide.
But no most troop have began to cost more or become weaker and are now more dependent on characters.

Magic doesnt affect detachments. Only special rules and priest prayers. Otherwise detachments would be absurd.

In my eyes Helblaster should be more temperemental machines, and as such shoudnt be allowed an engineer (being blown up is an underling thing)

And Empire is character dependent or rather Warrior priest dependant. I feel its a real shame that WP's have become and almost mandatory crutch

 

[Yorga]

The new army book is actually worse than the previous incarnation due to several units being sub-par or just stupid concepts. The book is balanced about certain "synergies" which restricts your choices unless you want to nerf yourself and several things just doesnt make sense.

despite the good things in the book I find Cruddace really truly dropped the ball on this one. Impressive given how solid the old book was. can't have been easy..

Welcome to getting an 8th Edition Book, Dead. :tongue: ALL of the 8th edition books are worse than the previous incarnations. For one, each army looses about 80% of their unique magic items. Wait until the howling really begins in Oct/November when we Chaos Warrior players see OUR new book. I think it will make many a grognard veterans cry...perhaps quit the game. You guys have cannons. 'Nuff said. Cannons rule supreme in 8th edition.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I think Tomb Kings, Ogres and OnG all got major boosts Yorga.... Soo it is not all doom and gloom:devil2:

 

[Yorga]

Apparently fielding two units of four demigryphs is the way to go. A number of imperial generals swear by this setup.
I've only played two games against them with my TK's and they can cause some headaches for certain armies. Mortars are elf killers but I can't see myself regularly fielding them in my nascent Estalian Empire list.
Cav lists have made a comeback in 8th over the past few months due to them being immune to stomp/thunderstomp so I'm not surprised when I see empire lists fielding nothing but warmachines and mini Tony Starks.

I agree Seneschal. Cav's ability to avoid the stomps has seen a resurgence. That and players finding ways to nullify steadfast or at least outgrind a steadfast unit. In my area there is a proliferation of skaven players who routinely win with the 13th Spell. Cav armies negate the benefits of that spell since it only targets infantry.

Personally, I think GW realized their error when they wrote steadfast into 8th edition and therefore the new books have some interesting Cav options. That is why I am almost certain that when we Vamps finally get our FAQ, the Blood Knights will come back at 1 + caster level for every IoN cast in their range.

 

[Yorga]

I think Tomb Kings, Ogres and OnG all got major boosts Yorga.... Soo it is not all doom and gloom:devil2:

I'll give you Ogres Johnny...but not the other two. My friends who played Tomb Kings gave up when the new book came out. The sphinxes looked terrible to face at first glance but they crumble like any other unstable thing and and cannot go in unsupported. I played O&Gs. I hate the new book. Except for Mangler Squigs most of the new stuff is trash. Our doom divers and rock lobbers are better but that is due to 8th edition rules, not the book.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I am loving the new OnG personally as its damage output is just mental and animosity is not horrible these days.

As for the TK book my buddie likes it more oddly enough.

 

[Chaos_Born]

I wouldn't say O&G got a major boost, they're probably a bit better but nothing major. Tomb kings I don't know what they used to be like but I've heard nothing but complaints about the new book, so if this is a major boost then God help anyone that used the old book

Obviously ogres did get a major boost, no shadow of a doubt. Even just the 8th edition supporting attacks thing lifted them without factoring in all their shiny new goodness

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

It is rare they will benefit from it but a ward is still nice any day of the week.
Personally the magic effecting both parents and detachments is great for other magic rather than prayers.

Hellblaster though got better in my eyes, its no longer a fast way to commit suicide.
But no most troop have began to cost more or become weaker and are now more dependent on characters.

Magic doesnt affect detachments. Only special rules and priest prayers. Otherwise detachments would be absurd.

In my eyes Helblaster should be more temperemental machines, and as such shoudnt be allowed an engineer (being blown up is an underling thing)

And Empire is character dependent or rather Warrior priest dependant. I feel its a real shame that WP's have become and almost mandatory crutch

I think I am to used to the priests in the parent units but I only made the reference as for the rules it says if the parent unit has any one of a number of listed rules the detachment does as well, it makes no mention of how it is gained.


WP are needed to much now but they are still great in their own right, personally though I am still morning the loss of initiative on my swordsmen.


I found the Tomb Kings book to not be that much improved, the ogre book though has a massive boost. :frown: