How should I play against this dwarf gunline.

[TheArtfulDodger]

Hey guys. So I have a Tournament coming up and one of the guys playing is a friend of mine. We have swapped lists and I am wondering that if we come up against each other in the tournament will I have a chance of beating him or should I play in such a way to try and reduce the flogging and try to come away with as close to a draw as possible.

Now I cannot change this list so please don't bother with the "You should have taken this or that" because its too late for that the lists have been submitted. I have played this list a couple of times now and had some pretty good success with it. Just not against a Gunline like this. The only thing I can think of is trying to get into combat as soon as possible to try and avoid the pain from those warmachines.

The lists are below. Any tactics advice would be great. Once again I'm not looking for list analysis on what I have taken, just on how to best use it. Its standard 8th Edition.



OK This is what I have:

Vampire Counts 2400 Points 8th ed

Lords and Heroes: 713
Vampire Lord -lvl 3 Lore of Vampires- *General*
-Barded Nightmare, Shield, Heavy Armour, Red Fury, Quickblood, Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, The Other Trickster's Shard

Wight King
-Great Weapon, Ironcurse Icon, BSB

Necromancer -lvl 1 Lore of Vampires-
-Dispell Scroll

Core: 600
40 Skeletons Warriors
-Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer

30 Crypt Ghouls

20 Zombies
-Musician, Standard Bearer

Special: 862
29 Grave Guard
-Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Great Weapons, Banner of Eternal Flame

9 Black Knights
-Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer

5 Hex Wraiths

1 Spirit Host

Rare: 225
Terrorgheist

This is what he has:

Lord, 2 runes of fortitude, rune of stone, 2 runes of might, shield, shieldbearers
303 points.

2 plain master engineers
140 points.

Runesmith, rune of spell breaking, rune of fortitude, rune of stone, shield
128 points

Thane BSB, master rune of groth one eye, shield
168 points.

29 longbeards, great weapons, shields, champion, standard bearer
455 points.

20 quarrellers, great weapons, champion, standard bearer
300 points.

Cannon, rune of forging
145 points.

Cannon, rune of forging, rune of burning
150 points.

Cannon, rune of forging, stalwart rune
160 points

Grudge thrower, rune of accuracy
105 points.

Flame cannon, rune of penetrating, rune of burning
185 points.

Organ gun, rune of penetrating
160 points.

total 2399 points

 

[LordTobiothan]

Your only hope is a lot of very good magic phases. Otherwise if you can find a building park your army behind it and pray.

 

[ObliviJohn]

When facing dwarves it's better to just stay back and hope for a draw. :/

 

[Atrophus]

The only advice I can really give is avoid the dwarf Lord with your vamp Lord and wight king, he'll butcher them with 2x runes of might.

 

[Alabaster427]

You may advise him to take some normal guns/cannons. If he comes up against HE or Khaine Elves, BotWD will scoff at all his shooting. This would also help you a little. If weren't a tournament, but just a friendly game, I would suggest lots of Direwolves. DWs eat cannons and Organ guns for breakfast if they get into combat. But you need to have a well-rounded list in order to compete. He is only taking one rune of Spell breaking, so that's just a dispel. This means that he won't be able to actually break any of your spells (just dispel once), so you don't need to worry about losing any important ones, especially IoN, which it seems you may need a few duplicates of for this particular match.

 

[LordTobiothan]

You may advise him to take some normal guns/cannons. If he comes up against HE or Khaine Elves, BotWD will scoff at all his shooting. This would also help you a little. If weren't a tournament, but just a friendly game, I would suggest lots of Direwolves. DWs eat cannons and Organ guns for breakfast if they get into combat. But you need to have a well-rounded list in order to compete. He is only taking one rune of Spell breaking, so that's just a dispel. This means that he won't be able to actually break any of your spells (just dispel once), so you don't need to worry about losing any important ones, especially IoN, which it seems you may need a few duplicates of for this particular match.

He can't change his list in any way. What you see is what him and his dwarf buddy has to work with.

 

[Alabaster427]

He can't change his list in any way. What you see is what him and his dwarf buddy has to work with.

Oh yeah. Well, since Direwolves are out, if you happen to get Raise Dead, you might consider keeping it as extra chaff. The one IoN could be sufficient on your general. Typically, you don't want your hexwraiths in combat, but because of all of his magical shooting, I would recommend getting them into contact with small units or war machines right away. If you can run through multiple units once, try that, but my guess is that he will deploy in a way to prevent that. Target the things with Rune of Burning first to keep the Regen save on your TG, otherwise, he won't likely survive the first turn. This looks like a really annoying list and almost like he designed it specifically against you, which will hurt in the tournament. Good Luck.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

To be honest I am hoping I dont have to play him lol. If I do however I am also thinking I should just be trying my best to Raise Dead as much as I can to block the shooters where I can. He didn't build this list to take mine one. He built this is to cheese his way to a tournament victory.

Overall I just hope I don't have to play him. But if I do have to, it will be Vanhel's to get across the board ASAP and Raise to block the shooters as much as I can.

 

[heldantes]

I think bring your black knight bus (cut the GG to add a couple more) with a vampire Lord, with OTS for those pesky parry saves, and one or two vamp heroes, one with night shroud against those great weapons for support, and with banner of swiftness, some vargheists to screen (though they'll probably die first turn) plus lots of dire wolves and lots of mini zombie drops of 20 to ensure you can deploy your main bits after he's put all his war machines down.

Get in as fast as possible and all those guns will be useless. Obviously use terrain to your advantage if possible. Actually both his units are smallish and with great weapons so no parry saves. The Lord and hero if both had red fury would kill 10+ alone. Definitely make the Lord a level 4 for raises and just hope he doesn't eat your invo also make the one or two vamp heroes shadow mages with miasma to lower the ballistic soil of the organ gun and quarrellers or even better draw out some dispel dice.

Lastly, that dwarf Lord is insane but twice now I have killed my brother's similar Lord with killing blow. Depressing for him!

 

[Alabaster427]

To be honest I am hoping I dont have to play him lol. If I do however I am also thinking I should just be trying my best to Raise Dead as much as I can to block the shooters where I can. He didn't build this list to take mine one. He built this is to cheese his way to a tournament victory.

Overall I just hope I don't have to play him. But if I do have to, it will be Vanhel's to get across the board ASAP and Raise to block the shooters as much as I can.

If he plays High Elves, I don't see how he can win. BotWD is basically auto-include for HE player for tournaments and can be really annoying for just minor magic, but he has everything as magic. He's gonna have a bad time.

I assume that your VL is running with the BKs, so you should be able to get the hexwraiths, BK and Terrorgheist across the board fairly quick. If I remember correctly, his lord will get either double strength or a 2++ against your VL, so it's best not challenge with the VL. If his lord throws out a challenge, then accept with a champion; this will eliminate his 2++/double strength unless you gave the BKs lances, but then it will only be the first turn.

I would put the Necro in either the skeles or zombies and hope he gets Vanhels (or the VL is good also), I would try to bubble it every time, but if you can't, either target the BK or GG.

Try to keep the TG behind them or to the flank if you can. There a was a forum that I believe came to the conclusion that a TG could scream at units it's not in combat with, even if it's locked in combat with a unit. So getting into combat with a cannon then screaming at someone else would really help, but I think the target still has to be in the forward arc (someone verify this please)

 

[LordTobiothan]

Try to keep the TG behind them or to the flank if you can. There a was a forum that I believe came to the conclusion that a TG could scream at units it's not in combat with, even if it's locked in combat with a unit. So getting into combat with a cannon then screaming at someone else would really help, but I think the target still has to be in the forward arc (someone verify this please)

This is all correct