How useful is the Banshee?

[Kuwanger23]

I have often wondered this from addition to addition. It seems that your average roll on 2D6 plus 2 would be a 9. And you can effectively make that a 10 if you are around a unit affected by aura of dark majesty. So what are we really killing with this? Most units will have ld 8-9. so you may kill 1 model or so. I definitely can see its uses from time to time but I can't see the reason to:

Take a tomb banshee as a hero choice (esspecially over a wraith)

Upgrade on in a unit of wraiths essentially then paying 75 points for one and losing 3 str 5 attacks.

And why they seem to spam it in this book more so then any other before it. Hence the terror geist has it and I think there might be an item or ability that gives it as well.

Are we just hoping to spam it and roll high? Is it for small expensive units like knights and the such? Are people taking the banshee? Or finding that Ghostly Howl is coming into play more than I think it does?

Damn I just realized that there is a tactical section and I am not sure if this topic would be better suited there. At first I looked for one and could not find it so I posted it here lol. Well either way: Discuss.

 

[Sception]

Average roll is a 9, and does little or nothing. Average is just the average, it's not what you roll every time. Sometimes you'll roll higher and sometimes lower. So the banshee 'misses' half the time. So what? Remember that normal shooting attacks also have a chance to fail. Not one, but three in fact - since you can miss, you can fail to wound, and they can pass an armor save. You need to do well three times to get your effect. Banshee scream only needs to do well once to cause several wounds to a unit regardless of its toughness or save.

whether it's worth the points for you is another question. Banshee's aren't cheap. But it's important to add a terror-causer to the fear bomb combo, if you're running it, so that it can work against ogres & the like. A banshee is only 35 more points then the wraith you would have taken anyway, and since you've already got dark majesty in that combo I'd say those points are worth it.

Or you can stick her in a unit of wraiths with their own banshee in an ethereal heavy list for that stereo effect, making a good roll all the more likely, and remember it only takes one good roll to devastate an elite cavalry unit or the like. Or pair her up with a skabscrath lord or ghoul king, again for stereo screaming.

And she's still an IC ethereal model, which has considerable utility to it. Charge her into a warsphinx and laugh about how it can't do anything. Challenge great-weapon-wielding characters to fights they can't win. Block off the corner of a skeleton unit so fewer attacks can be allocated against them. etc.


I don't think she's an automatic choice at all, but hardly useless.

 

[The Dead of Night]

Malisteen has it spot on. I will add that on the occasions that you roll high you significantly increase the chance of the enemy unit breaking. The Wraith could get lucky and get 3 wounds, the banshee could get lucky and get 6. The Banshee also has a pretty good chance of 4 wounds.

If you want to compare it to a wraith think about it like this:

The Wraith has WS 3, so against most units he is hitting 50 % of the time. That's 1.5 hits. On an average roll vs an average unit you are looking at 1-2 hits from the banshee. As Milisteen pointed out, the Wraith now has to roll to wound and there might be an AS roll as well.

That being said the tactics Malisteen pointed out are the reason I take one.

 

[Kuwanger23]

But can't a wraith do the same thing as a banshee in terms of blocking attacks from coming in, issueing ethereal challenges, and bringing terror? He may not have a scream and sure his damage out put may be less but without factoring in re rolls for hits and wounds which we have a lot of and a potential extra attack for 4 attacks his attacks bring two things the banshees doesn't : CR and when in a challenge actually putting wounds on the hero. The scream I see being nice for killing elite cav for sure! That seems to be its main function. But is that enough considering the wraith brings to the table everything else the banshee does and more? That is the real question here.

 

[The Dead of Night]

What more does the wraith give? Everything you listed the banshee does, but she causes more damage.

 

[Sception]

The wraith and banshee both have the ethereal hero thing going for them. The wraith adds a few decent strength attacks, while the banshee has the scream, but costs more. That's pretty much how it goes. Neither is worthless. The wraith's attacks can help tip combat res in your favor (though the low weapon skill means it won't tip it by too much), but the banshee's scream can potentially strip entire ranks off of enemy units. Both heroes have cumulative effects. Two wraiths doubles the attack output of a single wraith. Two Banshees dramatically increases your chances of a good scream role, while threatening the prospect of simultaneous effective screams.

Both can wiff. The Banshee has more overall offensive potential, and pays for it. The wraith presents a cheaper option that also helps out with combat res, albeit in a limited fashion.

They're both good. Neither obsoletes the other. Neither is an automatic choice. With how tight points can be under the new book, neither might be affordable for your army. Or both might.

 

[Kuwanger23]

I agree. I just think point for point the wraith brings more to the table. Considering we win our game in combat we need CR whereever we can get it even if it is a 1-2 points. The banshee is really nice for softening up knights for sure and I can see that as her major use. I am just not sure how killing a few guys a round on a good roll is that good when units these days run big. Especially since it doesn't count towards CR.

@ The dead knight,

The banshee does not bring all of those things i mentioned. She does not provide CR with her 1 str 3 attack. And our new book buffs combat so much that a wraith with re rolls and or ASF and or +1 attack is always better in combat and not only can actually wound in a challenge but can actually kill 1-3 guys a round for CR. He does IMO everything the banshee does and way way more. The only thing he doesn't have is a scream. So why is the banshee cost more? I think they have always been over priced. But that's just me. I still love their model.

And no where in any of my posts did I say either option was useless. I am just trying to find how the community uses Banshees. I have heard from some people around here that they love them but I have never heard exactly why. So I came to the most obvious place to find out lol. I figured you guys would know the most seeing as this forum is not only full of VC players but all different metas.

 

[Smacula]

The other important thing to note is that you can use the scream while in combat. While I agree it's not entirely reliable it can pay off in spades and utterly devastate a unit, especially with the fear bomb. Terror is a nice bonus. Banshees are awesome when they work, slightly overpriced when they fail. The terrorgheist scream with full wounds is absolutely devastating most of the time, if you pick your targets.

 

[MadLarkin]

The reasons why I use a banshee in every game:

1. Fluff. In my army's backstory the banshee is the love of my general, who killed herself after realizing what a monster he had become. His former love for her combined by his new twisted nature and the nature of her death caused him to nearly go mad with grief and her spirit is bound to him.

2. The model is really cool.

3. Utility. If she's in a unit (usually with skeletons) she can strip off an all important rank, or take opportunistic snipes out of the unit. If the enemy is low on offensive magic/magical ranged attacks, she can venture off on her own to hunt down the enemy's elite units.

 

[Thanmar Thrask]

The reasons why I use a banshee in every game:

1. Fluff.

2. The model is really cool.

Exactly my reason for wanting to use her. For me in a unit of Cairn Wraiths. A few long dead ancient magic users, clad in ethereal clothes wielding soul-reaping scythes lead into battle by the maddened ghost of a long dead and wicked sorceress. Whom then kills people by screams of anguish and hatred. (That or she was just a really awful bard) While the Wraiths following her butcher the terrorized troops.

 

[Todrak]

If you ever get the opportunity, try running a banshee into a stegadon. My lizardmen friend cried when I took out his expensive monster and held it up for a little while.
In general monsters don't have good leadership so banshees are great against them. Granted, Terrorgheists are fantastic too (and particularly good at taking out pesky small units like salamanders and chamo skins), but the ethereal rules gives the banshee some insane utility.

 

[Aeviaan]

^^^ This. Imagine even fighting another undead army. She would destroy it, assuming there were no characters there. Also, as pointed, many combat beast/monsters have low leadership, so she is great for wounding them before charging in. Also rather useful against Ogres, who I believe have a rather low leadership.

Basically, target expensive units where a lack of armor saves and only killing 1-2 models will mean a lot. (Don't target clanrats, for instance. Or even empire swordsmen or the like, go for Chaoes Knights, Dragon Princes, Juggernaughts, and the like).

 

[Kuwanger23]

Well i love the banshee models. And I am playing 1 just because she is cool. I guess against certain armies she will be way more effective. Does she take the LD stat of the unit or the LD it is benefiting from any character.

 

[E-Dog]

Just took two as hero choices in a 3000 pt. game, I put 'em both in a unit of 60 skellie's. With that unit and a black coach I was able to take out a stonehorn and a thunder tusk.:|

Situational for sure, but I can see myself taking them again.

 

[Bravo_10]

I'm more a fan of the Cairn Wraith personally, just because of the damage output it adds in combat. I won't be pitting it up against any high-caliber combat characters or anything, but it's a nice addition to a unit of Skellies to bolster their hitting power a bit, and the fact that it's a Terror-causer means that it'll synergize really well with the Screaming Banner (Bahaha, Ogres beware!!).

Also, this is indeed in the wrong section, as the OP mentioned. I'll move it in a sec...

[mod]Thread moved to 'The Teachings of Abhorash'[/mod]

 

[ATP485]

Vs Bloodthirster. Multi-charge with a unit including 2+ Banshee, and a Terrorgheist. Potentially a lot of wounds coming from the shooting phase. Couple with Aura and maybe Doom and Darkness

 

[N.I.B]

How useful is the Banshee?

That will entirely depend on how Ghostly Howl will be FAQ'd. If she can scream into combats while not in combat herself - very useful. If not - crap.

 

[Chaos_Born]

I wouldn't say that being unable to scream into combats is crap, the usefulness of shooting while in combat is huge. Enemies wracked by screamy death will be unable to silence her by charging

 

[illusionarypresence]

the greatest ability of the banshee in my opinion is to remove all those pesky skirmishers that hide around our flanks, like skinks/ waywatchers/ shades and to some extent gutter runners. this ability has been quashed somewhat by the LOS requirement but she still is a cheap, terror causing flank protector with a decent missile weapon.

she is made better by the fact that if the enemy has no scouts she can fulfil any of the roles already mentioned, or go warmachine hunting. She can also go after large monsters that often have lower Ld (aboms without spikes, pumpwagons, chariots hydras etc)

 

[MadLarkin]

The reasons why I use a banshee in every game:

1. Fluff.

2. The model is really cool.

Exactly my reason for wanting to use her. For me in a unit of Cairn Wraiths. A few long dead ancient magic users, clad in ethereal clothes wielding soul-reaping scythes lead into battle by the maddened ghost of a long dead and wicked sorceress. Whom then kills people by screams of anguish and hatred. (That or she was just a really awful bard) While the Wraiths following her butcher the terrorized troops.

Love the back story. If you're going for bad bard, you should try and paint her to resemble Rebecca black or any other singer you find cringe worthy. the the cairn wraiths can be back up dancers or band members

 

[Sabotage!]

I think the Banshee is pretty useful, though of this is situational. I find it's price fair compared to Wraiths, as it has more potential to do damage. In lower point games I feel the banshee really shines. I played a 1k point game against OK a week ago, and as my rares I took a unit of two wraiths and a banshee. The unit tied up and destroyed a four strong unit of mournfang cav with a dragonhide banner (which was almost twice the point cost of my unit). To be honest the wraiths did very little (though my buddy rolled a lot of five and sixes from armor saves), but the banshee rocked the unit hard.

In lower point games banshees allow us to deal with heavy "hammer" units that we really can't contend with our model selection (mainly because we are limited to 250 point of rare in 1k, and most of our special big guns either have frenzy or really need to be supported to bring down Mournfang/Chaos Knights, etc). The Banshee gives us potential to blow through 3+,2+, and 1+ armor saves on low wound units that's really hard for us to obtain in limited point games.

In conclusion I think the Banshee is a good unit, but it's value decreases at higher point levels, and is by no means a must take.