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skelelot

Zombie
Sep 22, 2012
18
I play usually vs skaven and High elf.. I've never won.. I have used fast unit, chaff, magic.. I' don't know how to win.. Any advice?
 

skelelot

Zombie
Sep 22, 2012
18
We usually play 2000 or 2500 games...

Skaven: magic and a lot of ranged, with 2 cannon

Elf: Teclis with a lot of overpowered magic and strong cac with lion and swordmaster..
 

Gaze-bo

Skeleton
Feb 9, 2012
76
Vs High-elf play without Special Characters, Teclis is Teclis and he will always be a bi***... I've had great succes vs High Elf in 2500 using Mortis Engine, SGK in a group of 40 Ghouls, Lot's of Grave Guards with GW, Zombies, Varghulf a Wight King and 2 Necromancers (1with Dispell Scroll and 1 with The Cursed book). Their high leadership and good magic makes me skip the Terrorgheist.

I've been having problems against Skaven though... Terrorgheists and Banshee's are must haves since their Strength in numbers doesn't counts towards Screams. Also Rod of Flaming Death is very good! I wouldn't use Spirit Hosts or Wraiths since they got so much magic. Cracks call and that spell who turn our zombies into Skaven Slaves will always be a problem... Black knights would be good since Skavens often lack in strenght.
 

Seneschal

Liche
True Blood
May 15, 2008
5,520
Spirit Leech wreaks skaven.
Use a a trio of vargheists 2 wide, 1 in the back and charge Teclis. Assign all of your attacks against him. They swing first but he is T2, WS3 with no save of any kind.
 

skelelot

Zombie
Sep 22, 2012
18
He always keep Teclis in a unit of lions in the second line, with heroes in the first.. I can't kill him in an easy way..
 

Seneschal

Liche
True Blood
May 15, 2008
5,520
He deploys White Lions 5 wide with command and 2 nobles up front? Fascinating. Does he by chance take the Banner of the World Dragon (the one that makes the unit immune to all spells including his own)? I'm guessing he brings Caradryan the captain of the phoenix guard who gives the unit MR 3?

Give us some more details and we can better help you, young vampire. :)
 

Anilar

Wight King
Sep 1, 2010
424
Skanderborg
Depending on how friendly games your playing, and how competitive you all are, another approach is to ask them what they think you should be doing to stand a greater chance. Im only playing friendly games, and if we once or twice have had something very powerful hard to stop something, we also talk about how to counter it, and if we can't come up with something suitable that later on works, we let the powerful stuff stay at home. Which in this case, could be to let the High elf player understand that you don't find it that enjoyable being constantly beaten by his Teclics powered army.

Against skaven it sounds like you need some warmachine and missile unit hunters, Vargheist and bats are probably useful here. The shooting stuff in his army rarely have decent LD, and apart from him making a shooting hill with his warlord smack in the middle I guess they won't be using his LD either. So if you can get the missile units to take Terror and panic tests, they should not be shooting so much.

But yes more details on your opposition, what spell lores or just spells they really like to use. What numbers they bring in units and types and such. Together with your limitations, like if you don't have certain models forexample vargheists or you like hate playing with level 4 wizards in your army. Then we can help you much much better.

What you might find out, is that you might perceive Teclics and his unit as the greatest threat, and maybe he is. But it sounds like a very expensive unit, now im a wood elf player, so I would have most of my army dealing with the rest of his army, and chaff stuff making the white lions with Teclics move around the table where I want them, and away from the main battle where they can earn there points. I would be using eagles and dryads for that, im pretty sure you can do similar things with dogs, bats and summoned zombies. And let the rest of your army concentrate on everything else he has.
Im not that knowledgeble against skavens, but its clear you see the shooting part as the biggest problem, and I know skavens can shoot into combat. But again maybe its about taking the right skaven units out of the game, where you score important VP. And let him shoot all he want, but again more details, and im sure there is experienced VC generals that know exactly what to advice you on.
 

Xander

Ghoul
Jan 11, 2012
130
Your friends sound like dicks. I don't play weak lists, but I certainly don't take this sort of cheese against friends. If I was you I'd branch out and play someone who wants to play a good list, not a list made entirely of cheese. Ugh. Makes me sick thinking about it... Teclis. Who the hell takes that? This is why I love tournaments that ban named characters and have comp scores with different bans of players.
 

datalink7

Black Knight
Aug 30, 2010
327
Do you have access to Ogres? That is one of my other armies. So if I was constantly facing Teclis (which, particularly in friendly games, classifies that opponent as a bit of a dick), I'd do a dick move back.

Tyrant
Bruiser
Bruiser
Bruiser
Bruiser BSB with Runemaw (any spell directed at this unit has to choose another target on a 2+)

18 Ironguts with Banner of Swiftness (for M7)

2x Units of Leadbelchers to fill out core.

As many 21 point sabertusks as you can take (probably be around 20).

So it would be an Irongut Horde, with the BSB safely in the 2nd rank, charging on the second turn.

Alternatively, you could do a 18 Maneater Horde with Brace of Pistols. Runs you at around 1200 points. Give them Scout and Swiftstride. Horde of Maneaters deploying on the flank would mess with the enemy.

If you don't have Ogres, I'm not sure. Maybe a massive unit of Hexwraiths with a Deathstar of Black Knights with a blender lord/blender vamps?
 
Jul 13, 2012
131
If he fields Teclis or Book of Hoeth combined with Death magic you are likely out of luck, as it will just wreak your face.

Against High Elves I acn't recommend the Corpse cart enough. I often have a lvl 2 mounted on it behind my infantry lines. Usually my opponent will prioritize dispelling Vanhels and Invocation on my elites, leaving the lvl 2 free to cast invocation. The loss of rerolls and the rezzed models usually will mean your ghouls and skellies will have a battle of attrition that they will most likely win.

High Elves also loathe Nightshroud. A vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon wearing this should be able to travel the board with impunity.

I have yet to lose to skaven. As others have said they are horribly vulnerable to death magic.

I can rly recommend Varghulfs and vargheist here. Skaven is one of fairly few enemies that aint likely to kill them in sustained combat
 

Darbagal

Ghoul
Jan 24, 2008
164
Skaven usually comes in either of two variants. Stay back and shoot version (WLC, casters, lots of weapon teams, possibly jezzails) or run forward and kill stuff version (abdominations, doomwheels, plague furnaces etc). Most armies are a mix of the two but most players have a certain strategy they prefer such as all out assault, staying back or slow advance.

Against stay back and shoot lists it is usually possible to win by getting into combat as fast as possible with some of our stronger units. Use core or chaff to deal with slaves to get knights and other hard hitting stuff into combat with something more important. This also prevents them from shooting into the important combats since he can only shoot into combats with only slaves.

Against combat armies magic is the key to beat his tough models. Either for buffs or to do direct damage. If he has lots of big stuff feed zombies to some of them while dealing with the others. More information will give opportunity for better advice.

As for Teclis. If he for whatever reason doesnt have banner of the world dragon in his unit kill him with magic (unlikely).

Otherwise you can chose to ignore him and try to feed him zombies (you will need lots) to keep him from casting useful stuff on other units or try to kill him.

Unless he has a caster with lore of life and regeneration spell you can potentially kill the champion and force Teclis to the first rank and then try to take him out. If he has life the champ will be back again.....Lions will potentially kill a lot of stuff before you strike but taking out the champion shouldnt be impossible.

What lore he is using will be key to determine what you can do about him and also how important it is to kill him. At least if he has a unit of lions, his BSB, another hero and Teclis in the same unit he probably wants it to see combat meaning that you should hae a chance of killing him. If he hides he has spent a lot of points on things that will not do anything useful during the game (BSB, hero, lions, full command).
 

aussie

Black Knight
Sep 4, 2010
397
iowa
against teclis take a strigoi a master necro lore of death another necr level 2 death and a necro for vamp add a monster unit of zombies and alot of crypt horrors 2 terror ghiest. pretty much roll the death level 2 necro first before the level 3/4 necro for death first turn move forwards and 6 dice purple sun at teclis and every turn just keep on purple sunning tectlis until he is dead or u lmao
 

skelelot

Zombie
Sep 22, 2012
18
Thank you for the answers!

I will try to use new tactics.. btw he usually uses life or light lore.. he keep teclis in the lions bunker with 2 nobles and another mage.. Once I arrived with my vargheist unit, and they destroyed it.. but usually he destroy all my stronger unit with swordmaster..
 

DivineEdge

Zombie
Sep 25, 2012
34
New to this forum, but am a long-time player of high elves, and so can hopefully give half-decent advice.

Teclis is always in a PG/WL deathstar. If he puts solid characters in the front rank, then you are probably in trouble. The should be taking World Dragon, and you don't have access to Life, which has the big bomber spell (Dwellers) that can actually reliably kill Teclis/any high elves.

To be honest - ignore it. It is a huge points-sink, so you should be able to kill the rest of his army really quickly. This seems counter-intuitive, but nothing we have will beat them in combat. Having said that, hitting him with a really rock-solid anvil and trying to raise them up as best you can (with Teclis will be hard to get spells off, but try) is the best way to go - as he can't PoS or PSoX your units away while locked in combat. This works unless he hides behind an LSG horde, which is coincidentally the best way to run him.

Most high elf heroes take great weapons for sheer awesomeness. If he doesn't run Caradryan and Khoril (which he should be, but this is another story) then you might be ok with ethereal units.

Having said that - best way to deal with him is not to. Kill everything else, and them turn on him.

Will probably be posting up my high elf tactica from another site and putting in a how-to-deal section fo VC, if that will hep with the rest of his army.
 

skelelot

Zombie
Sep 22, 2012
18
DivineEdge said:
To be honest - ignore it. It is a huge points-sink, so you should be able to kill the rest of his army really quickly.

Having said that - best way to deal with him is not to. Kill everything else, and them turn on him.

This is the problem.. He usually has:

1) Teclis' unit with nobles and mage
2) swordmaster unit, I think with 1 noble (they destroy everything)
3) and the others are base unit really cheap..
 

DivineEdge

Zombie
Sep 25, 2012
34
IMO, swordmasters are point for point the killiest unit in the game. They are also t3 with a 5+ save. When I play against HE, I never let these guys reach my lines. Magic them and redirect them. If you have to get into combat with them, don't send in elite - they will get chopped up. Send in a huge horde of skeletons or zombies. Sure he'll kill like 15, and you'll lose combat, but every swordmaster lost is a big deal.

He takes backup mages with Teclis? That is kind of a waste of points. Be glad it's not 10 more bodies in an elite unit.

If he is using life/light usually then just be glad it isn't shadow or death. I shudder to think how much army you would have left if he got a boosted Purple Sun off every turn.

Grave guard, crypt ghouls, calvary units to the side, decent monstrous infantry - should all soundy beat spearmen in combat - unless he has mindrazor/fleah to stone on them. In he does, you are toast.

If he is bring Teclis, a mage, and three or four nobles, that is like 1000 points in characters that will not stand up to a vamp/vamp lord with quickblood. If he doesn't have ASF for whatever reason, he is toast. Challenge out his characters should the opportunity arise.

^This is true unless he brings special heroes - mostly Caradryan. Feed him one unit champ per turn.

If this doesn't help, sorry to have wated your time.
 

von Rosentod

Zombie
Apr 4, 2012
48
That sounds like two nasty armies you're facing. In my gaming group we play rather hard lists occasionally. Even Teclis sometimes. With a heads up to your opponent so he can prepare and building a soft list around him, he's good but fun to play against (another challenge to beat).

As a High Elf player, and a Skaven player, I agree with the above comments. When facing Skaven - destroy the chain of command - any Ld providing effect. And Teclis should be rather squishy too. If you can reach him.

If you're running out of options (and feel lucky) either the Tricksters Shard, or the feedback scroll could be something worth considering. As both lists rely on magic they could be useful...

But at this point Anilar's advice would be a good place to start. The most fun in warhammer is, in my opinion, telling a story with your army and making up own scenarios around that story - perhaps even campaigns. When I first started one of my mates kept bringing rock hard armies that were for the hardest torunaments. In the end it was really sucky to play against that, especially if your own model options are limited.

Good luck!
 

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