Idea for Fun Lord in 8th

[TechnoWarlord]

Plus Magic Level
Vamp Powers:
Spectral Form
Forbidden Lore : Beasts

Use Transformation of Kadon (16+ or 20+) to transform into either Great Fire Dragon or Mountain Chimera.

I figure throw a good chunk of dice at it. If I'm reading the rules right then if you get IF then the spell resolves before the miscast therefore you would use the monsters stats over the reg stats.

You now have an Ethreal Dragon/Chimera!

What do you guys think?

 

[Milos]

I think that you can't use spectral form as chimera/dragon...

But if you can... Then there will be some problems for enemies

 

[TechnoWarlord]

Reading the spell it doesn't say that Vampiric Powers are negated. Just that you can't cast spells or use magic items and mundane items.

 

[Humaneater]

Although they can Errata dodgy wording or references, this spell just plain DOES NOT state that ANY special rules are lost, and so things like this MUST be played as written. So, technically you can take Red Fury with this, etc.. Because you don't lose the vampire rule, you don't lose your Vampiric Powers.

This also applies to the Undead rule, so you're also targettable by Invocation and Vanhel's.

On the other hand, this applies to other armies aswell... so, we'll have things with all sorts of silly special rules running around. In the allied games as discussed in the rulebook, we could end up with Beastmen making Chaos Lords into chimera's or w/e with Marks, or Bret's making whoever they're friendly with into stuff with silly special rules... The list goes on. And people WILL find excuses.

 

[TechnoWarlord]

I don't think that the Beastmen thing would work with the Chaos Lords as the spells specifically targets the casting wizard.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Currently using RAW under the rules this would work........though I have got to admit it is cheesy Still I would love to do it and see someone's face before the FAQ it

 

[Lyracian]

people on Warseer were talking about doing this with High Elves so they have ASF Dragon/Chimera...

Sounds like it could be quite funny.

"Bob was that a ghost dragon that just ate Fred? Run for the hills!"

 

[Darkos]

Certainly, acording RAW it's how it works.

Same it's true for all armies (Expect hating dragons, 6+ special save dragons with magic resistance), but little cn we do until GW FAQ it out.

But also expect a lot of arguing when try to convince your oponent that your ethereal dragon is legal...

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yeah but it would be so funny to see a HE players face. "My Great Fire Dragon has ASF, the rules blah blah blah" Once I have let him prove the point the dragons retain the characters special rule, that's when you pull out the ethereal dragon trick :devil2:

 

[Fodderboy]

On the down side, if those rules applied, our big beastie would still crumble if it whiffed on it's attacks.

 

[Lyracian]

On the down side, if those rules applied, our big beastie would still crumble if it whiffed on it's attacks.

That is why you support it with a unit. Spell say even though it is a monster it can stay joined to a troops unit! :devil2:

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Gah..... everyone is doing this, and I finally give up. Sure, go for it, but you'll get the reputation of the cheesiest, beardiest, beard-cheese-beard-beard-cheese in the whole history of the game.

An ethereal dragon..... I might just have to buy the High Elf Dragon Model and make one now....

 

[Brian Mage]

seems like there's a million threads on exactly this subject...

But just a note, as i've said on the others, that HE Dragons do not benifit from the Speed of Asuryan special rule (the ASF one)

The rule says
"note that this special rule applies only to the HE's, and not to any mounts they are riding or creatures pulling chariots -which will strike in the usual order"

{sits back and really hopes that someone doesn't say "but it doesn't say "dragons" "}

 

[Order of the Blood Dragon]

I think you shouldn't get the powers as it would make us very cheesy being immune to most attacks and generating extra attacks for each kill we do. However, technically the high elf who transforms is a high elf, not a mount or creature being used by the HE. I wouldn't argue for that much cheese unless with friends who also plan on using it that way, such as a Bret getting a 6+ ward for theirs and a HE getting ASF.

 

[Kampfpanzer]

But it doesn't say "dragons".

 

[Crovax Accendant Evincar]

As good as an idea it is I think it's very wrong as it's obvious (well to me) that GW would not of intended for our vamp powers to carry over or the highelf asf,I generally play friendly games and this would cause a lot of problems,I know of certain people who prob would try and do this which is a shame because it's a serious play on words,hopefully GW will clear this up soon because it's
more beardy than a very beardy dwarf,in fact it's that bad it rings of chaos dwarf beard thw worse type

 

[Burnanation]

I would talk to whomever I was playing before hand rather than spring it on them. Naturally, I have to agree you CAN make the ghost dragon of doom, but I wouldn't bust that out unless I knew the person was going to be equally covered with cheese.


Well maybe I would bust it out on my best friend from back home before they FAQ it just because.

 

[space cowboy]

What is the exact wording of the spell? I thought you just removed your dude and replaced him with a creature of the appropriate type. Doesn't seem like anything would get to carry over if it is a simple replacement.

 

[Humaneater]

Well, I didn't realise that it targets the casting wizard, my bad (I left my copy of the rulebook at work :S).

On the topic of the last few posts: I think a dragon SHOULD retain the HE ASF rule. Not because it doesn't specify dragons. But because it specifies "not to any mounts they are riding or creatures pulling chariots -which will strike in the usual order." Because this Dragon is NOT a mount. Nor is it pulling a chariot. And those are the two specified exceptions. I know I'm picky, but since it says nowhere "transformed High Elves are not affected" (or words to that effect) it must be played as written, even though it is now retardedly broken and will result in some wierd play.

Please note that I was a Beasts player on the recieving end of the changes to 7th. We took a MASSIVE hit to raiders, so now its time for everyone else to get pwned by ASF/ethereal dragons. Since I don't play beasts anymore and sold em all after the release of the latest Beastmen book, idc if they get pwned too. I just want to see other armies take a hit from these rules

To be honest, these are the only two gamebreaking applications of this spell I can see anyway. Can't think of any other characters with worthwhile rules to change into a dragon. For the effort of getting the spell and the risk of not random generating it with a level 1 or 2 at the beginning of a game, its not even that reliable with these two, just a fun way of slapping a Dragon into a 1000 point game.

 

[Brian Mage]

"On the topic of the last few posts: I think a dragon SHOULD retain the HE ASF rule. Not because it doesn't specify dragons. But because it specifies "not to any mounts they are riding or creatures pulling chariots -which will strike in the usual order." Because this Dragon is NOT a mount. Nor is it pulling a chariot."

[/color]
So great eagles get ASF? obviously not because its an eagle not a HE.

Is a dragon (created from spell) a HE? no...

Spell states "the wizard transmogrifies himself into one of the following creatures"

To Transmogrify - "to change completely" source - Etymology Dictionary 2010

RAW sorted for you right there...

Anyway, I still don't understand why people say "well I can do it coz it doesn't say I can't"... Where the [insert random swear word here] does it say you CAN then? same logic applied...

At best this is a rule to roll a D6 over to decide.

In my humble opinion, anyone who tries to play a ghosty or ASF dragon has serious inferiority issues. Why try to play that way? its just not necessary, fun or fair... its just shows a lack of skill and creativity

 

[Humaneater]

Hmm you're probably right about the ASF there, I was sorta thinking along the lines that it WAS a HE once ^^

I also agree that I wouldn't try and use an ASF dragon if I was a HE player. On the other hand, you technically CAN use an Ethereal one for definite, and I don't think the owner has inferiority issues, he's just 12. A wizard of any level is now MORE than capable of dishing enough wounds to kill a dragon in a turn. Who cares if he blow's himself up? He just removed what your opponent probably thought would win him the game, and will now go and cry to his mummy / teacher who runs his wargames club. Thats the fun of the new, high-risk + high-return magic - both killing ethereal dragons and making their twelve year old owners cry.

 

[Order of the Blood Dragon]

Thats the fun of the new, high-risk + high-return magic - both killing ethereal dragons and making their twelve year old owners cry.

That thought alone will keep me going no matter how bad my life ever gets.

 

[Mioum]

I would personally play with the profile in the book, with no additional special rules such as ASF or Ethereal until FAQed. The profile gives a bunch of special rules to the creature you change to, and I think it's all the designer intended you to have (persional opinion here).

If a FAQ came up and say that we can keep Red Fury, Hatred or ASF while in beast form, then it would be a nice boost/bonus

Strangly enough, if you change into a Hydra, Manticore or Dragon you became a large target, but not when changing to a Chimera or Great Dragon!

 

[Humaneater]

As far as I was aware, a Dragon didn't have Large Target either? I know Chimera and Great Dragon definitely don't.

 

[Brian Mage]

and I don't think the owner has inferiority issues, he's just 12

That right there is the quote of the day! Good man!