WHFB - 7th invocation questions

[henk]

so i played a game 2 days ago against some sissy elves and my graveguard unit got a bit damaged so i decided to heal them.
now here's the problem i had my bsb wight king in the unit he had suffered 1 wound i wanted to heal that and the rest of the unit.
now i looked at the restrictions of ion and it said if you heal mounted ethereal or vamps it just heal 1 wound. my opponent thought if i used ion i had to choose between my unit or the hero i disagreed now i want to now whats the rules for this kind of situation?

and another question how do corpse carts work with summon undead horde? if i heal 1 wound on a unit using that does the cart give +1? i kinda think i wouldn't because i would be over the top but just wanna be sure

 

[midean]

Your opponent was right. You could have used a IoN to heal the unit D6 or you could have healed your hero 1 wound. Not both or use one wound from the IoN to heal your hero and the rest on your unit. Doesn't work that way.....

 

[henk]

okay they could have made the rules clearer on that thanks for the help
anybody know an answer for the second question thanks in advance

 

[Kalandros]

Yes it works with the corpse cart but only once per unit per spell cast.

 

[Fallen Angel]

okay they could have made the rules clearer on that thanks for the help
anybody know an answer for the second question thanks in advance

Clearer? The book says: "characters must be targeted seperatly to benefit from this spell."

 

[henk]

hmm must have mist that my bad

 

[Lord Fear]

Your opponent was right. You could have used a IoN to heal the unit D6 or you could have healed your hero 1 wound.

Also note that if you have a Wight King on foot and he has taken 2 wounds, if you cast Invocation on him then he gets back D6 wounds. Well worth doing, just because 99% of opponents will argue with you about it, but is completely within the rules!

 

[Kalandros]

"Non-Infantry Units" would categorize the Wight King as well, mounted or on foot, as he is a Character, not Infantry, see the list at the end of the codex for Infantry Units.

So only 1W at a time for the Wight King, not D6

 

[Lord Fear]

That's exactly what I'm talking about, people so confidently arguing the case against it. Thank you for demonstrating. Just because he's also a character, doesn't stop him from being infantry, otherwise he wouldn't be able to do things like entering buildings, or claiming +2S for wielding a great weapon, or anything else that requires a model to be infantry. Similarly, put a character on a horse and they become cavalry, take an Ogre version of a character and you have Ogre-sized infantry...

 

[Kalandros]

At best its a very light shade of grey.
I mean you have a point but its not supported by the rules exactly is it? If it is, do point it out.

Page 7 defines Infantry separately from Characters.
The same way a bloodthirster follows some of the rules of Monsters, a character infantry-sized, follows some of the rules of Infantry models.

The rules aren't complete of course, but I would call abuse of rule on healing that 2nd wound on a foot-wight king.

 

[Lord Fear]

Yes, as much of an abuse as it would be to fight with hand weapon and shield together, or healing fliers by D6 wounds. It's absolutely supported by the rules: he's an infantry model. He really is. If I were to ask you or anybody else, "Is a US1 character on foot an infantry model", you'd hopefully say "Yes". It seems indisputable (Dispute it if you disagree!).

It is a little bit of a shade of grey I agree- but is it really so abusive to give the Wight King a reason to be on foot rather than on a horsey with 2+ save as always?

You're right about Bloodthirsters and other monstrous characters not following all the rules for monsters, but that was one of GW's worst FAQ answers (And based on a section of the rules stating that some characters follow the rule for monsters- there is no such caveat for infantry characters), and cannot and should not be applied elsewhere. But that is where the grey area comes from. Here's a question for you: the new Skaven 13th spell states that it can be cast on any infantry unit. Would you say that a Vampire or Wight King or any other US1 character on foot, that is standing by himself, cannot be targeted by this spell? It's an interesting question really.

 

[tex577]

Geezers on foot are infantry, geezers on horsies are cav. Simple as!
Also the rules state specifically that VAMPIRES can only ever regain a single wound per casting. Elvis (the king) is a souped up wight and there for if he has more than 1 wound, imho it dosnt matter d6 for the win!

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Reading the arguments put back and forth, I would have to agree with Flapula. If the Wight King is on foot then he is infantry, there is nothing in the rules to dispute this. Otherwise as her said, he would not be affected by certain enemy spells etc that he is obviously meant to be.

Most probably that this is a gross oversight by GW, but from my interpretation Wight Kings on foot can be healed by D6 wounds.

 

[Ophidicus]

"Most probably that this is a gross oversight by GW"

Not in the slightest! Rulebook P.7 (referenced previously, but the poster implied exclusion): Characters; "They can fight on foot as infantry..."

 

[Kalandros]

Just saying, its not clear (; but its fine, ill play it like that as well!
Though that situation will not happen very often, you have to lose 2 wounds exactly and be on foot.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Wait, did we just dramatically change the way Invocation of Nehek works?
I'm e-mailing the Roolboyz you RAW freaks.

 

[Lord Fear]

I don't think this thread has revealed anything new...

 

[Bishop]

Seems clear to me

Wight (Lord for us old timers ) King can gain multiple wounds if on foot. He is US1, he is not ethereal, nor a vampire...

 

[tommoxyz]

In the rules Page 72 - Joining and leaving units - states that "....a character counts as an individual unit comprising of only one model."

Codex Page 38 IoN spell states "Target one of your own Undead units or Characters within 18". The target unit regains D6 Wounds....."

In this case IoN would allow him to recover D6 wounds as he is a character that is an individual unit.

When he joins a (foot) unit the In the rules Page 72 - Joining and leaving units - states that when he joins a unit "....he becomes part of that unit..." Thus a Wight lord and the unit are the same unit. later in the same section "...Characters must be targeted separately to benefit from this spell"

So the unit his in can either have D6 wounds or he can have D6 wounds but not split.

I think that the D6 when he is alone is valid. However, D6 when he has joined a unit is a little tenuous - what do people think??

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Codex Page 38 IoN spell states "Target one of your own Undead units or Characters within 18". The target unit regains D6 Wounds....."

I think you might be in the wrong game....... Don't let TDS catch you using 40k terms, he gets a tad upset. For future reference its Armybook.

Basically with the rules I would say he can have D6 wounds, if on foot, and targeted directly. If in a unit the rules do not allow wounds healed on the unit to be passed on to characters when using IoN.

 

[Bishop]

D6 while he has joined a unit is fine, as long as the Wight (Lord) King is only US1 and is being targeted seperately.

If the W(L)K is US2+, then (s)he will only gain a single wound per casting of IoN.

If the W(L)K is in a unit, then (s)he needs to be targetted seperataly as mentioned in IoN.