Is Death Lore worth it on a Lvl 2?

[Adam_Barrow]

I've taken Death on a Lvl 4 Master Necro, and I really like the way it works. But is the lore worth it on a lvl2 baby Necro? That means only two spells from the lore, and i'm not sure I like those odds.

If it helps, my other casters are a lvl1 Vamp Lord (vampire lore), and a lvl2 Necro (vampire lore).

 

[wallisface]

i'm taking death on a level 1, just to try snipe some characters.. I think that's reliably all a lower-level death caster can do. Personally I wouldn't take him as level 2.. either up him to level 4, or drop him to level 1 and kit him out a little (scroll, book??)

 

[Seneschal]

Yeah, save your points and grab 2 more fell bats or 11 more zombies.

It may be dangerous not having a high level caster to dispel things, however so I would proceed with caution.

 

[Vectra]

i would only go death on a lvl 1 mage if it was in the same unit as a vamp lord or wight king (to boost Ld). sniping with spirit leech wont work too well on Ld 7 (it is 7, right? i dont have the book here). Death on a lvl 4 is great, but i think a lvl 2 is a pretty poor idea, especially if you already have a lvl 4. he wont really add much.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

I am toying with running 2 lvl 1's and a Lvl 4 in a unit with a wight king and just smashing peoples characters into the dirt.

 

[Seneschal]

...and that is why Johnny_Crass is the man. Why didn't I think of that? A WK with no upgrades in a bunker with the casters...that's a solid idea. You could even make him the BSB if you like and not have to worry about giving up an extra 100 VP's if he falls. I've also seen scenarios where BSB's give away extra battle points so that makes this idea all the more nifty.

 

[Gokamok]

I actually like running my Deathomancers as lvl 2. One reason for this is to more reliably cast Spirit Leech on 3 dice, (not that I'm sure of the mathhammer, but it seems to have an impact) also, I find that having the extra spell comes in handy, with D&D and Soulblight being great to cast into combat, Caress is nice for the extra long range snipe, and both Fate of Bjuna and Purple Sun can be quite handy too.

 

[Tamodan Varison]

No need for a Wight King, just go for a Vampire Lord. LD 10 doesn't seem much of a difference to 9, but it's one more wound, and if you cast the spell twice 2, thrice 3,...

 

[Friendly Dead]

Let me chip in my piece her here

The whole discussion on unmodified LD against death magic/Banshee screams is done elsewhere with no definite conclusion as yet so far as I know.

That being said I don't believe that there's any evidence in the rules, faqs or whatever that proves the unmodified LD of a unit has anything to do with that unmodified LD of an individual model in said unit just like I would say that a model couldnt use the General's LD if within 12 for the purposes of this spell.

I don't use it myself nor do I accept an opponent playing it that way until I see a very, very specific faq on the subject. Personally I find it to be somewhere between beardy and "creative" rules interpretation in any case. And I know a lot of people agree with me here.


Feel free to interpret it that way, but better check with your opponent first.

 

[Mikael.K]

Im leaning towards 2 level 2 death necros and a level 4 vampires (mostly due to massed crypt horrors). Seen that setup work great in a recent tourny. You still have 4 levels of death and can pretty reliably get the spells you want (leech, sun, soulblight) and they are only 100pts a pop. Other than that, I really see the merits of a level 4 death caster, very fun to use! .

 

[Nagashizzar]

No need for a Wight King, just go for a Vampire Lord. LD 10 doesn't seem much of a difference to 9, but it's one more wound, and if you cast the spell twice 2, thrice 3,...

I don't understand; Wight King have 3 wounds (just like a Vampire Lord) o.o

 

[Velmates]

It is about the Spell Spirit Leech. All I want to say right here is that it is about your and your target's LD. Look it up in the BRB for a detailed description...

 

[bigbadbat]

Shooting from the hip here as Im nowhere near a BRB...
Unmodified leadership is defined by taking the highest ld available in a unit.
It does say in the BRB faq that D&D, strength in numbers, and other abilities or effects are not included when calculating unmodified ld.
Inspiring presence would also not be included as that rule is for leadership TESTS. However, if the general was in the unit with necro casting spirit leech, necro could use generals ld per the rules for figuring unmodified ld stated above.
For screams it states it simply tests agai.st their ld, in which case Inspiring presence would be a factor, as any unit can use their generals ld if witjin 12". Strength in numbers cannot be used against screams as in the rule it states for ld TESTS. D&D AoDM all work though for screams.

 

[Mikael.K]

So I guess the banner of discipline would not work since it modifies the units Ld?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

SOD would not work that is correct.

 

[bigbadbat]

In response to OP, I think lvl 2 is an unnecessary investment. You're taking death on a level 1 for spirit leech, and while death has some awesome spells, paying the points for the extra +1 to cast and spell doesnt seem worth it as you still gonna be 3 dicin' it at the early stage of the phase to pull DD, or sneaking it in at the end of phase with 2. (assuming they have a lvl 4 dispelling.) At lvl 1, its a threat. At level 2, its an investment. Lvl 4, well that's just fun as you have some good spells and the casting support via wizard level to use PD to max value.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

In response to OP, I think lvl 2 is an unnecessary investment. You're taking death on a level 1 for spirit leech, and while death has some awesome spells, paying the points for the extra +1 to cast and spell doesnt seem worth it as you still gonna be 3 dicin' it at the early stage of the phase to pull DD, or sneaking it in at the end of phase with 2. (assuming they have a lvl 4 dispelling.) At lvl 1, its a threat. At level 2, its an investment. Lvl 4, well that's just fun as you have some good spells and the casting support via wizard level to use PD to max value.

Good to know. I'm squeezing points already for some more Vargheists. Thanks, everybody! Very helpful.

 

[datalink7]

In response to OP, I think lvl 2 is an unnecessary investment. You're taking death on a level 1 for spirit leech, and while death has some awesome spells, paying the points for the extra +1 to cast and spell doesnt seem worth it as you still gonna be 3 dicin' it at the early stage of the phase to pull DD, or sneaking it in at the end of phase with 2. (assuming they have a lvl 4 dispelling.) At lvl 1, its a threat. At level 2, its an investment. Lvl 4, well that's just fun as you have some good spells and the casting support via wizard level to use PD to max value.

I don't know. I think I might try a level 2 with death in my Knight bus. Spirit leech isn't even the best sniping spell. Fate of Bjuna and Caress are both better. If I take a level 2 for sniping, I have a decent chance of getting one of those two other sniping spells, and then I can default the other spell to spirit leech. Having two sniping spells can be good if you are really trying to snipe a character.

And it is nice to have a backup dispel mage that isn't just a level 1 in case your level 4 fails a dispel.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Is it worth a damn to bunker that baby deathromancer in a unit without higher LD characters? Will his LD cut it?

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Nope his LD is garbage. He need to be in a unit with LD9+ to be worth anything

 

[Friendly Dead]

Nope his LD is garbage. He need to be in a unit with LD9+ to be worth anything

And assuming that a model's Unmodfied LD = His Unit's unmodified LD?

Which is far from a given. After all it ain't the unit casting the spell, it's the model.

The entry in faq only deals with the unit's unmodified LD for purposes of tests and so forth.

I just wouldnt assume your opponent will accept that unmodified leadership can be modified by other unmodified leadership. Because I dont

 

[Chivalry]

Nope his LD is garbage. He need to be in a unit with LD9+ to be worth anything

And assuming that a model's Unmodfied LD = His Unit's unmodified LD?

Which is far from a given. After all it ain't the unit casting the spell, it's the model.

The entry in faq only deals with the unit's unmodified LD for purposes of tests and so forth.

I just wouldnt assume your opponent will accept that unmodified leadership can be modified by other unmodified leadership. Because I dont

Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership. What is your unmodified leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.

From the Warhammer BRB FAQ

So no, its not open to debate, its pretty clear

 

[Friendly Dead]

Nope his LD is garbage. He need to be in a unit with LD9+ to be worth anything

And assuming that a model's Unmodfied LD = His Unit's unmodified LD?

Which is far from a given. After all it ain't the unit casting the spell, it's the model.

The entry in faq only deals with the unit's unmodified LD for purposes of tests and so forth.

I just wouldnt assume your opponent will accept that unmodified leadership can be modified by other unmodified leadership. Because I dont

Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership. What is your unmodified leadership?
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.

From the Warhammer BRB FAQ

So no, its not open to debate, its pretty clear

Clear? Hardly.

What is clear is unmodfied LD for the purposes of leadership tests. Spirit Leech does not work as a leadership test. For the purposes of that faq it is the unit taking a test, nothing else. So I'd say it's subject to interpretation, not least because anything else and Death Magic would be the most overpowered thing in the game

 

[Johnny-Crass]

"Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit." this is the only thing that matters. I have never layed a game against someone who plays this differently.

 

[Demian]

Hmmm no...

the concept of "Unmodified Leadership" is not solely for tests:

Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership (<---this part does speak of tests. So long, you're right). What is your unmodified leadership? (<---this part is clearly asking a question about a definition. It will apply to anything that contains such definition, in this case, Spirit Leech)
(p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.