Kama'zotz

[JFSebastien]

Finally got my order through: 2 box of Bloodletters, 1 box of ghouls, Vlad and 'Winged Vampire'. I was all excited and in a fluster i jump out of the bath to come see what 'Amazon Santa' had brought (buying from a miniature company via Amazon sucks, no combined postage costs a fortune, but i had vouchers to use up). I tore open the boxes and started to pour over the little plastic details when.......

....i notice the scale difference in Bloodletters hands and those on the Ghouls.
Bugger.
The plan to convert the more beastial, bat-like Bloodletters has fallen flat on its face because i can no longer swop the sword hand for those in the ghoul set. Im disappointed but i feared the project wouldn't work due to the base size difference, but thought i might dodge ranking problems due to there not being swords on the models etc, so it might've worked. Also im not impressed by certain areas of the Bloodletters, like their backs, which are just covered with bobbly bits with no muscle detail underneath.

The Vlad model is nice tho abit 2D. The plan is to file out the faces in the cloak, repose the sword wielding arm by cutting at the elbow and rotating, should help break the 2D feel. Going to remove the should horn aswell. Depending on if i can be assed, i think i might just remove most of the cloak thats being blown forward, file down the whole back of the cloak and take off the bear paws (Vlads right arm would need reculpting on the bits that are currently covered by the bear fur) and resculpt the cloak to be alot less windswept. The only problem would be the little bit of cloak that comes through his legs and the hair, both of which are harder to alter but would have to be so it doesn't look too odd with. Also think ill take off the tiny beaded chain on his waist (minor detail, but i frikkin hate beads and jewels) and possibly cover up some of the chaos faces in the armour. Too much skull and random crap on GW armour sculpts these days.

The winged Vampire im not sure about. The original plan was to take off the wing and sculpt the arm to be bare, thrust into the air in triumph, possible holding something (head/heart/icon/arcane item etc). I wanted a vampire that was more tribal, half armoured with alot of exposed flesh for tattoos, perhaps even giving him a beard (are Vampires sponsored by Gilette? you don't see many with facial hair) But looking at the components, im not sure, the head is small (esp when i take off the weird collar crap) and the twisted torso pose doesn't look as good as some painted versions ive seen. Might just construct it and see what i can do to make it better.

So, now i have to find a home for 20 Bloodletters NIB, potentially 10 Ghouls (NIB unless i have alittle fun and construct them, might not tho and just sell them straight on) and possibly the winged vampire (another idea would be too give him a winged left arm to match the right....)

So all in all, after waiting a week for the goodies to come, the project falls at the first hurdle. Onto Plan B. The possibility of sculpting and casting my own multipiece set of ghouls. Proper ones without bad poses or tons of crap on them...
If only Rackham would release these future plastics already

PS: this is the start of my log btw. The title is a hint as to the flavour of my army (if it doesn't change), based on the Mayan diety of Camazotz, the description of which is basically a Varghulf in appearance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camazotz
I looked at the Mythology of the Far East in regards to Vampires, but China and Japan (Cathay and Nippon) don't have suitable mythological creatures. Indian (Ind) was a possibility (they have a ghoul like vampire in their mythology)
I then stumbled on Mayan/Aztec/Inca reference material after i almost decided to make a Lizardman army. Found out some info and it all clicked. So im looking at the Maatmeses bloodline, how it would differ from the exsisting ones: Strigoi (feral and wild) vs Lahmian (devious and graceful), Blood Knights (martial prowess and honor) vs Necrach (arcane and selfish), Von Carstien (political and power hungry) vs.....?
So im coming at it from the traditional angle of Politics (Von Carsteins) vs Religion (Maatmeses) on the archetype wheel of Bloodlines. Theres no real fluff other than he went south after the vampires fled, tho most consider he fits the niche of Voodoo Vampire as the human population of the Southlands are reported to be black skinned (southlands being south africa). I don't really want a Voodoo army (tho it could be great) as i would make this with tons of zombies etc and my army list is focused on Ghouls.
My Vampires should really be set in Lustria, but the only real reference to Vampires there is Luther Harkon and the pirate imagery, which i don't want to use.
So i think its going to be Southlands for me, a Bloodline desended from Maatmeses. The vampires and tribal cult of ghouls that serve them, worship the Aspect of Kama'zotz, the Beast that lays within all vampires, conducting huge Blood Sacrifices to appease the Unliving God. The Maatmeses bloodline (in my fluff) is heavily defined by strong abilities to shape shift (where as i see Haarate vampires as being spectral, two types of vampires that aren't already defined in the existing bloodlines). My Lord moved further south, roaming the jungles, taking on the aspects of beasts to survive. Most Vampires of the Bloodline can adopt dozens of forms, but Kama'zotz favoured the true beast that dwells inside all their kin, that of a were-bat, or Varghulf. Whereas many other bloodlines have vampires who 'give in' or 'devolve' into Varghulfs, fulled by rage and hate, they cannot control this metamorphosis and psychologically are little more sentient than an animal. Kama'zotz, like all of the Maatmeses bloodline, retained their minds and self-mastery when adopting the various forms of beasts. In fact the Vampire-Priests worship this inner beast and adopt is form at will in times of war and during the huge ritual sacrifices, both feared and worshipped by the once-human tribes that they reign over. The tribes are devolving into ghouls, serving the Vampire cult by capturing sacrifical tributes and feeding from the scraps of human flesh that the Vampires discard after ripping the hearts from their victims, the constant river of blood flowing down through the ancient stone of their Ziggurats to where Kama'zotz himself dwells, gorging upon an unending tide of crimson.
Hopefully that gives you alittle taste as to where this project might go. Visually they will look pretty unique, adopting alot of Mesopotamian imagery than will be a stark contrast to the Medieval European and Arabic look of the other Bloodlines.
Expect to see:
~Tribal Vampires with big plumed headress and obsidian clubs and bone armour.
~Cold-One mounts (using DE plastic mounts, they have the same stat line as Nightmares bar Stupidity, that could be justified as they are from Southland and hence have Horned-Ones that don't suffer from Stupidity)
~Skeletal Cold-One Black Knights (might sculpt and cast a Cold-One skeleton)
~Slave carried Palanquin with sacrafical altars on top (Necromancers removing hearts, burning on 'Braziers' Sun Dial gongs as Lodestones) for Corpse Carts
~Tribal Ghouls (might sculpt/cast own, GW ones kinda suck)
~Fell Bats (might sculpt/cast my own, GW ones definitely suck)
~Varghulfs (will prob use the exsisting model, but a second would need resculpting/posing to be different)
~Carnosaur Abyssal Terror
etc

Let me know what you think

 

[Onikaigo]

I feel for you. I went through a similar dissapointment, I had some Empire minis I was going to convert to Necromancers and such. Well, part of it was due to scale sizes, the other part due to my sheer incompetence. :/

I butchered those poor wizards. I did. There's not much left. =/


And, by the way, those minis are freakin' awesome at the bottom. I'd so buy those. Lots of them.

 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

I have the exact same army theme that you are doing, and I can tell you they are very rewarding to convert and paint. Shameless plug, but if you fancy reading up on Maatmeses, I have written a 290 odd page story detailing her history, which can be found in the story section of the forum. I am just starting work on book 2, which follows the Maatmesin as they enter the jungles of the southlands, and have a further 4 books planned, so if you want any inspiration you might fancy taking a read of the stuff posted already! DoN is just compiling it for me into a single, approachable thread so keep an eye out.

I am going to keep a close eye on this thread and see how your interpretation of the Maatmesin differs from mine, although at the moment they seem almost parallel. Even down the shapeshifting aspect of the bloodline that I am just beginning to explore properly in the second book. Its amazing to see another player who has actually taken on this bloodline with what looks to be alot of research and a detailed plan, so can't wait to see this unfold!

TPL

 

[JFSebastien]

hey, Pale Lady.
wow, great minds think alike eh
Found your story and will start to read it tonight, might get some good ideas.
I guess the idea just works, the blood sacrifice, the religion, the animal aspect worship. When i found Camazotz and read about the description, its perfect and hard to ignore. Its something alittle like the missing link in the origins of the Vampire myth and i think it will be great fun exploring it. Have you got a Plog with your miniatures online somewhere? or do you favour the writing side of things more?

 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

I definitely favour the writing side more, although I put alot of effort into converting miniatures to suite my vision of them. My incarnation of Maatmeses is of an ancient vampire, dressed in the style of the voodoo priestesses of the jungle tribes over who she rules. She is mounted on a palanquin carried by the decaying remains of lizardmen, and her throne has things like a python, some clay pots and a plaque on it. The vampire herself has been twisted by a mixture of vengeance and a diet of swamp creatures into a vaguely reptilian appearance; ever so slightly scaly skin, sharp fangs, and yellow, crocodilian eyes. This model took aaaages to convert but I am really happy with it.

The tribes that worship her and her offspring are call her Lady Crocodile, or the Serpent Queen, amongst other things, and the Maatmesin's sarcophagi are inlaid with stone image of crododile-headed men and women. The tribe's society revolves around justice, or Maatmeses' interpretation of it, which has become increasingly warped and selfish over the centuries of her tragic existence.

The tribesmen have devolved into little better than ghouls, she calls on the restless spirits of their ancestors to help in battle, the crocodiles and bats of the jungle also respond to her call and together they defend their tribe fiercely, against all who would seek to wrong it. I have even incorporated blood-knights into the list, in the guise of shape-shifted Maatmesin. I use the old citadel Wood Elf panther/leopard models to represent them as they stalk their prey across the battlefield.

What else...Corpse Carts are rafts of driftwood lashed together, manned by tribesmen and various zombies. They slide across the many swamps that surround the Maatmesin's jungle homes, raising the dead of the swamps in times of need. Maatmeses' centre of worship is the Death's Head Monoliths, a series of standing stones she has corrupted so that magic stagnates there. The surrounding jungles are deserted, spooky, dark and haunted, and the tribesmen only ever approach Maatmeses in times of ritual and sacrifice, when they kill hordes of prisoners to sate her and her bloodlusts. They perceived her as a goddess, ever since they first encountered her and she sought justice against the tribe's enemies for a terrible act they committed... Too much detail but I guess this is showing how passionate I am about them

TPL

 

[JFSebastien]

@The Pale Lady: Sounds great, would love to see some pictures.



~Work on my winged vampire has begun. Spent the first day debating replacing his left swordarm with a second wing arm (abit like the Heresy winged vampire) but decided this would be a pain to rank up the model and line up in combats etc. So it took the plunge and removed his wing. This wasn't too hard as i find that taking off large, flat metal pieces is easy when u cut a 'break line' by pressing a rounded scalpel blade along the edge u want the piece to split at (both sides), then you just gently bend the piece back and forth and 9 times out of 10 it comes off right along the line u wanted.
So the wing is off, leaving the shoulder muscle intact. Ive cleaned up the break so that is ready to have a wire inserted into the ball of the shoulder and a new arm sculpted. It will be held aloft in much the same pose as the 'wing arm' it is replacing, but i haven't decided what will go in each hand yet.
I guess i need to decide the most useful and common layout for a flying vampire and add weapons accordingly. I am considering something like the scythe from the mounted nugle hero model: could look great for a vampire swooping about, scything off heads while straffing the enemy ranks.
I also repaired the removed wing arm with a wire pin and some BS (Brown Stuff) for extra strength and will sculpt the missing detail back on when its dry. I have soldered a wire armature that exactly matches the bones in the exsisting wing, so i can scratch sculpt one for the other side that is identical. These will be mounted on his back, so instead of his actual arms being wings (or arm, as it was originally) he will have his hands free to wield weapons etc.

Photos to follow soon (don't have access to camera atm) with hopefully the wings fleshed out and some of the sculpting work done on the body. He also might get a new head as the original has a weird collar and tiny face.

So, any suggestions for his weapon loadout? How would you run your free-roaming flying vampire?

 

[JFSebastien]

Just got my new Digicam in the post, hurrah!
So, first up, could this get moved out of the Advice section of the forum and popped into one suitable for Plogs.
Second, some pictures to show the stripped down 'Winged Vampire'
Still learning with the camera and need to rig up a light box, so bare with me:

Wing removed with new wip armature:

Armature for the second wing almost finished soldering, overlayed on existing wing:

Stripped torso view 1:

Stripped torso view 2:

I shall photoshop up some concepts, but as it stands this is the plan:
~Left hand will be holding onto an extended cloak, sweeping it out as he strides up onto the mound.
~Right arm with be sculpted to be up over his head, about to cleave down vertically with a suitable weapon. Thinking a 2 handed hammer/club of metal or an obsidian axe.
~Head will be sculpted, facing down and to his right side, in line with what hes about to strike.
~Cloak will be sculpted over with scales to form a lizard skin cloak with two ripped holes at the shoulders for the two wings to be mounted upon his back, the 'bat wing' edge at the bottom of the cloak will be filled in and made to look like ragged leather to fit the new style but also leave rips to show armour details through the cloak.
~Loincloth added to hide the massive bandy legs the model has.
~At the back of the head/shoulders/ i plan to sculpt a huge plume of feathers like these:

Mostly the posted pictures are so you can see how easily the winged vampire model can be seperated from the weird monowing and be used for something else. Feedback would be great,



PS: quick WIP concept for this guy

Mod, if you can move this, id really appreciate it.

 

[The Brotherhood of Necros]

Looks excellent, great work. Continue!

TPL

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I love the concept. You have stripped the model very well, and the current WiP looks very promising. That head is great, where is it from?

Moved to Painting Logs

 

[JFSebastien]

Just copied a head from the Rackham ghouls in post 1. Its roughly the look ill be sculpting and im confident i can get it looking near that standard. Thanks for the encouraging words, i hope to have something more substantial and impressive to look at soon. Cut a trade deal for a NIB box of Cold Ones, so should have some Blood Knights, or their mounts soon. Gonna have a crack at using the plastic ghouls for my tribesmen, i got alot of plastic shaving to do.....

 

[dictator]

This will be very sick. Indeed we've found the next "Circus," army. Which in my own eyes, is THE standard to live by when converting and painting. KEEP them coming.

 

[Onikaigo]

I love the concept. Keep it coming, this thread has been subscribed unto.

 

[TMS]

I agree with the others, the concept is shaping up to become great. You've just got to love those pheasant feathers!

 

[dictator]

Oh, about the feathers, I would suggest that you attach them after you've completed the painting. I have found that when using real items it is best to keep them the way they look originally.

 

[JFSebastien]

@Dictator: Well, for the feathers, they are unlikely to be actual, real feathers....not sure there are any real feathers that are the right colour, shape and scale to use. Not sure they would look right either, might end up looking like a feather stuck on a model, rather than sculpted to the right scale and form.

I will definitely be attempting to construct the feathers in a way that they can be removed for individual painted before being finally attachd to the model. I'm slightly concerned because they will be vulnerable to knocks and falls on the gaming table, bost mostly im a modeller, so my concern is making impressive and unique models, practicality takes a back seat.
So either they will all be hand sculpted (benefits from wire armatures strength inside the big long feathers) or a bunch that are resin cast (can knock out loads so quicker and easier than hand sculpting hundreds, but fragile). The other option is to use thin slivers of plasticard, tho adding deatil to these might be tricky.

Thanks for the good reactions so far people. Looking at getting a Ghoul together thats gonna work for me, considering ill run 60ish in my army. For me, the ghouls are mostly the key to the success of the army, alot of the rares and specials are going to work great, its just the ghouls that concern me. I shall keep you updated.

Any Lizardmen players out there have a Steg? could i get some dimensions on the howada? Looking at using that for my palanquin Corpse Carts and the detail on the plastic kit looks pretty perfect it its the right size to fit on the CC base, with room to either side for the ghoul/slave bearers to fit....


PS: Pins for the new arms and head have been added. The right arm extending above the head will be bent at the elbow as if about to strike downwards. Can't decide what weapon to give him, two possibilities here:
http://www.bitzbox.co.uk.php5-2.dfw1-1.websitetestlink.com/images/lizardmen_saurus_warriors_club_4_large.jpg?osCsid=k9p25bc90sffjjvsgb2e1f6gu0
http://www.bitzbox.co.uk.php5-2.dfw1-1.websitetestlink.com/images/lizardmen_saurus_warriors_club_2_large.jpg?osCsid=k9p25bc90sffjjvsgb2e1f6gu0

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I choose option one - the axe. I think it fits better with the brutality the model exudes.

Keeps the updates coming!

 

[JFSebastien]

Todays work. Hopefully you can see that i've started to bulk up the head and neck, going to have a snarling or bellowing face, so the neck is going to have lots of tension in the tendons etc, the skull has been enlarged to the right scale and will be a solid surface to sculpt the face onto.
The axe is a quick, temporary job out of plasticard. Im undecided what style of weapon i want, tho an axe seems like a suitable choice. Looking at obsidian at the moment, so not sure if its going to be a plain axe or something more stylised or ornate.
The arms have been posed, the left is probably going to be holding some severed heads, the right bends at the elbow and again at the hand so that the end piece (with the axe head on) will form the weapon haft. This will give a nice strong wire core through all the added limbs.
Feedback, as always, is most welcome.

 

[Trevy the Great]

I'm liking the axe idea. I think the whole South-American theme that you're going for here with the obsidian axe and plume of feathers is kind of ruined by the fact that the model is, well, wearing plate armor...

 

[JFSebastien]

Got bored of waiting for GS to dry solid, so started work on Vlad.
The original is dynamic and a great model, tho it has details i don't care for. Not a massive fan of loads of demonic faces and skulls etc on armour. So im looking at altering Vlad to suit my army and tastes aswell as toning down the 2d 'caught in a gale' pose.
Ive been bold and hacked off the big sweeping cloak. This will probably be filed flat and smooth and new folds sculpted back on.
The horn has been removed.
I managed to take off the sword and hand without any damage to the component with the 'cutline and wiggle' technique, tho using my tshirt to protect the details and a pair of flat nosed pliers to gentle grip the hand. If you are careful with the amount you squeeze, you can remove big chunks of model whilst sustaining no damage to the seperate components.

So these pictures are just the raw model with no clean up.
I shall file down the cloak first, then take a look at how ill add the drapery back on. I might take off Vlads hair and drill out the cloak and crotch armour between his legs (resculpting the leg and adding on a Mesoamerican style loincloth).
His left hand will have a weapon that extends from his hand, down to the ground. His hand will either be resting on the pommel if i go for a sword, or gripping just under the head if i go for an axe/hammer/mace.

@Vekarin: Thanks for your suggestions and comments. I'm also concerned about the armour alittle bit. I am going to either paint is as bone armour or more likely, oxidized alloy. Metal armour was used in Mesoamerica, but rarely and usually just a few pieces like vambraces etc not full Plate style like you mention. So its not massively authentic, but then it wont be a historical army, just stylised after aztec/zapotec/mayan imagery.
I am hoping that by avoiding a clean steel metal look with a corroded and oxidized paint scheme, it will tone down the chunky chaos armour vibe and make it fit my imagery. We shall see.....at least the winged vamp has only partial armour, unlike Vlad in his full, stylised suit.

 

[JFSebastien]

Todays update:
Started to take off all the 'faces' from the cloak and smooth it all down.
I'm not sure what to do about the fur, i think it will just need some cleaning up and some new fur GS along the edge so it looks natural.
The cloak is going to get scales like the DE corsairs cloak i think. Suits the theme and handy for covering surfaces that aren't 'fabric smooth'. Its near impossible to file down certain creases, so you get areas that you cannot remove layers of metal perfectly, you're left with random bits ruining the folds of the fabric. So i shall take off whatever i can and go over it with lizard scales.

Not sure about the bit coming through his legs, i plan to probably remove this (drilling into it with a pin vice and scalpelling out the rest) and have the cloak extend to his left side rather than blowing through his legs. Either that or i will just take some metal off this piece so it matches the shape of the other corner of the cape (the one i cut down that flows out to his side)

Started work on a possible weapon for him. Im going for a heavy mace like pole. Ive made the hoop for a lanyard/plume etc and have used two sizes of brass rob to make it look nice and heavy. I think that each of the rings will get a spike, tho im debating sculpting it to look like a stylised spinal column, tho that might look crap. Also not sure if the big area at the end should have an axe blade or just bigger spikes etc. Or even an ornate head like a skull or something. Might keep it modest tho, i like the idea of a heavy metal rod used to smash skulls and crush bones through armour.

I know i work slow and its not massively impressive progression each day, but it beats people asking 'how did you do that' and 'can we have a tutorial' after i have finished a piece
Comments, thoughts, crit are always welcome and appreciated.

PS: Possible i could use the removed shoulder horn to make a kind of Military Pick (when a blade is filed into the horn etc), could also repose his weapon hand to have it hefted across his shoulder like so:

 

[Trevy the Great]

I can hear him in my head. He's saying:
"Grrr...I'm evil."

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Hmm, the horn on the pole looks......wrong. I just don't think it works

I like the other pose with a skull crushing mace, but the pole needs to look more bulk. At the moment it looks more like a staff than a weapon. So making the whacking end have a wider circumference, and some small spikes or studs would look much better IMO.

I can also see where're you're coming from with the cloak. Scales should look the part, and quite viable with the lizzies in the southlands.

 

[The Dark Sheep]

This always happens when I'm away for a couple of days; a new (great) plog pops up and I don't get to comment upon your stuff from the beginning .

Ironically there's nothing to comment on because everything looks great as it is, so why am I even complaining. Looking forward to seeing the finished vamps, and judging by your skills so far I should expect to be pleasantly surprised...

Edit: when thinking about it what about making a spiked ball on the tip (I'm not talking about a traditional mace).
This lizardman weapon should be a good example.

 

[JFSebastien]

Well, i filed some blades into the horn, and whilst i has cut down on the bulk of the component, it still doesn't really look right. A bit too large for a military pick. Just figured id try it because it would use a component originally from the model, in a totally new way, and would save me making a weapon from scratch.
So thats dropped.
I think i shall go with what i originally envisioned. Something akin to a Tetsubo or Kanabo used by the japanese, but less a studded wooden war club, more a solid metal rod style weapon. The smaller rings above the hilt (thinest space left for bindings, probably will wind some very fine wire around for the grip) will definitely get either squared studs or short metal teeth. As for the head piece, i think it will flare out and be rounded on the top of the weapon. Give it abit of mass to crush with and a circular edge around it to focus the force.
Another option is to do much the same, with it flaring out at the top, but seperate into thick, sharp mace flanges.
Anyway, photoshop concept till i can figure something out when the sunlight returns and i can sculpt again:

@Dark Sheep: Just not a fan of those ball mace designs. They don't look right to me, tho i can see how such a weapon evolved into the warclubs used by Native Americans, im yet to find an image of a weapon exactly like that, being used by the mesoamerican tribes. Even still, the design doesn't do anything for me. Thanks for the suggestion tho

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

That is what I meant - that looks more like a weapon than a staff. It you can sculpt that, it would be perfect.