Kings of War Tactics

[Quinten]

Now that GW squatted the entire Warhammer fantasy game there has been a mass exodus to KoW. It is a tight solid rule set and half of the functions people are praising Ao$ for were basically stolen from KoW (Set to wound and to hit rolls, retreating from close combat, no initiative, etc.). Therefore after playing a couple KoW games I'm looking forward to discussing how to tear apart my opponent with my undead horde in this new game.

Here are some basic things I've noticed about the Undead:
-Soul Reaver Calvary with the sharpness artifact is basically unstoppable on the charge
-Spamming heal is NOT a good idea. Heal is only effective on characters and expensive units, trying to heal a unit of zombies does not turn out well.
-Surge is amazing. Move a unit outside the main battle lines to a units flank then pivot...surge for a flank charge in the shooting phase.
-Bane-chant provides a much needed boost for our week units.

Some tactics about the game system:
-Most units cannot survive anything close to what would be called extended combat in fantasy. The game is fast paced and refused flanks can prove really deadly.
-Small units looking for flank charges are much more effective in KoW than in WHFB.
-Movement is insanely important in this game. Whoever wins the movement battle will automatically win the game. Period.
-The game is very well balanced
-I thought going in to the game that pre-measured charge ranges combined with set charge ranges and getting the charge off being really important would make the game a bit silly. It actually makes it highly tactical.
-This game is highly tactical. Much more so than WHFB IMO and definitely more so than Ao$.

Anyways those are my thoughts. Anyone else have any observations about the game that I haven't covered? Would love to hear what you guys think is in store for the undead if we choose to go to battle in Mantica.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Let's get the negatives out of the way first:
1) the game is definitely a lot more basic than WHFB. Much of the complexity has been stripped out.
2) armybuilding is a bit bland. No granularity in unit building is one thing, but the lack of options in hero building is what really kills me.
3) the game isn't as full of flavour as WHFB, or even Age of Sigmar are. Even in the final rulebook, with pictures and fluff added, the generic special rules and magic items make the game feel like it lacks some character.
4) I don't like the majority of their models.

But the positives:
1) This rule set is TIGHT. Yeah it's all skin and bones, but those bones are very solid. It can be fleshed out, and the solid structure will be able to withstand it.
2) Much of the simplicity is by design, allowing you to run games more efficiently and use a timeclock. That's a great boon for tournament play.
3) Many of the problems I have are things I could see Mantic adding to in the future. And unlike GW...I actually trust that they'll fix these things. They've extremely engaged and communicative with their community, and seem very dedicated to making this product something the community will enjoy.
4) Re: models...well...the whole point is that I can use my existing WHFB army. So no real complaints here.


All in all I'm very excited. Been writing lists, and I'm going to start playtesting in earnest soon. Funny thing is it even has me stoked to play out my last few WHFB tournaments and paint models up for them, since I know they won't just be a permanent display piece once all of that is done.


As for tactica, I'm enjoying the fact that all the unit entries listed actually seem quite viable. I'm very interested to try out some different combinations and see how things work.

 

[Quinten]

I think the flavor will come along as the game develops. The rules may be simplistic but as you pointed out this is by design and the game is by no means tactically simple which is what I am concerned about. However this thread is going a bit off topic as it is about KoW tactics not KoW in general. With that being said anyone noticing some interesting tactics/strategy in the KoW games they've been playing.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I think the flavor will come along as the game develops. The rules may be simplistic but as you pointed out this is by design and the game is by no means tactically simple which is what I am concerned about. However this thread is going a bit off topic as it is about KoW tactics not KoW in general. With that being said anyone noticing some interesting tactics/strategy in the KoW games they've been playing.

Haha. Fair. I'm just really wanting to talk about KoW but don't really have enough experience to make meaningful comments on it.

From my cursory examination, I'm thinking that using big bricks of skeletons / zombies to lock units down, and sweeping up with cavalry / vampires will be clutch. Fixed charge distances makes this a game where fast units can really dictate the flow of the game. I worry about getting tarpitted and worn down, but I feel like if I can focus my strength I can make it work. Plus fast moving units is way more fun to zoom around the table than big blundering ones.

That's the strategy I'm beginning with, at least. A flying vampire on a pegasus, who can lay some serious hurt from a flank. A couple units of cavalry out on the flanks. Mummies, skeletons, etc. in the centre taking charges and pinning things down. Some support characters in between, providing inspiring rerolls and buff support.

 

[Draykorinee]

Cavalry is king in Version 2 supposedly. Version 1 it was all about the siege weaponry, they have toned those down and buffed ranged as far as I can read.

Always have 1 inspiring presence for each 500 pts, seeing as you can take an infinite number of army standard bearers (already tried to convince the rule writers to change it, but its too late now :tongue they are the cheapest. Personally I won't be, I'm going to gimp myself a bit and take a pegasus rider and a standard bearer for my 1000 pt game.

 

[Quinten]

I find for undead all our characters have inspiring presence so taking standard bearers really isn't a big deal. I am also having some good success with tying things down with a legion of zombies and sweeping around with my soul reaver cavalry (that has the sharpness artifact). I am finding a refused flank complements this really well and regiments of ghouls are great for trying to make your opponent deploy on the wrong side of the board (move 6, marching, and not to expensive yet still a credible enough unit for your opponent to place crap down). Tarpits aren't as effective in this game and tend to not be able to hold up for extended periods of time so hammer and anvil tactics have to be done swiftly. The game is very fast paced and any move that requires a unit to be held up for more than two turns probably won't work.

 

[Draykorinee]

Yeah, undead are lucky with the inspiring presence, I am focusing on a KoM army for KoW first and then I'll possibly use my undead. My undead army is so badly painted because it was my first one and I really rushed them that I can't take them anywhere except to a friends house

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I'm strongly considering going with a pair of peg vampires for larger games, backed up by werewolves (vargheists), wights (ushabti), and revenant cavalry (BK). Move fast and hit hard where my opponent is weak. Fragile, but that's the way I like my undead.

 

[Quinten]

Sounds like that could be an interesting list idea. Doing a 2000pt game against ogres. I'm taking lots of troops of ghouls as chaff (four to be exact)...see how that goes.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Sounds like that could be an interesting list idea. Doing a 2000pt game against ogres. I'm taking lots of troops of ghouls as chaff (four to be exact)...see how that goes.

Let me know. I'm really interested how to make KoW work in the chaff department. Seems like the game is somewhat lacking in cheap, fast, disposable units like WHFB had. Would also be interested in a way to make that work out.

 

[Quinten]

It worked decently well. Troops of ghouls seem like a decent chaff unit as they move fast and are only 65pts. Because you can pivot through units chaff can be less effective at blocking regular moves. However, there is no overun (except for individuals which ghouls are not) so you can really block your opponents charges. Because of the superior movement of ghouls to many things in our army it is often effective to move them right up to a really powerful unit (Charge them if you can) and bring in a heavy hitter behind them knowing that the ghouls will get charged and die. With set formations there isn't as many weird movement tricks tho. You have any other ideas as to what units could be chaff?

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

It worked decently well. Troops of ghouls seem like a decent chaff unit as they move fast and are only 65pts. Because you can pivot through units chaff can be less effective at blocking regular moves. However, there is no overun (except for individuals which ghouls are not) so you can really block your opponents charges. Because of the superior movement of ghouls to many things in our army it is often effective to move them right up to a really powerful unit (Charge them if you can) and bring in a heavy hitter behind them knowing that the ghouls will get charged and die. With set formations there isn't as many weird movement tricks tho. You have any other ideas as to what units could be chaff?

Not really. At 65 pts they're the cheapest unit with enough movement to make a difference.

Only trouble is that they're troops, so might cause some force org issues.

My current plan is to do a centre of ghouls and revenant cavalry, then outflank with vampire lords and werewolves. Ghouls will gum up their lines and block counter-charges. Revenant cavalry will threaten flanks if the enemy turns to face my flanking force. werewolves and characters will focus their damage on the weak point in the enemy line. Catapults will counter-battery to protect the fragile wolves and vampires.

 

[Quinten]

Seems solid. Sure you want to use ghouls as your center? I tried it my first game and their low nerve value screwed me over. Might recommend a nice legion of zombies; they can hold out against most everything.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Seems solid. Sure you want to use ghouls as your center? I tried it my first game and their low nerve value screwed me over. Might recommend a nice legion of zombies; they can hold out against most everything.

It would be a "Weak Centre" strategy. Ghouls wouldn't actually be meant to hold against anything, simply to absorb shooting and gum up my opponent's centre while my fast units rolled down their flank.

 

[Emicrania]

Am I missing something here? Where are the artifacts? Is the army composition still as the rule say? 1 horde allows 1 hero,1 monster and 1 war machines?

 

[Dakaar]

The free download rules are missing the artifacts and other scenarios (these are in the bought books, and will porbably be available for free download some point after the printed books are out) But in the meantime thet are the same as the latest beta rules aparently available here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/htmlview#

Note also the sample pdf army lists are missing some options as well, which will be in the bought books and probably availabe free later, which are also shown on the beta lists on the spreadsheet linked above

Yes a horde allows 1 hero, 1 monster and 1 war machine, a regiment allows 1 only either hero, monster or war machine.

Also of interest the new beta list for empire of dust is up for testing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...srpk59SIF9hi6_KDBqkmyitRro/edit#gid=629031436

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

The Empire of Dust beta rules look awesome. So stoked.

 

[Draykorinee]

That's a lot of monsters!