Konrad Von Carstein best combat hero in the game?

[Forge]

Wow, he looked good on paper when coupled with a vamp with Forbidden lore beasts, but he performed much more spectacularly when actually put to use. for a measly 145 points you get red fury, 4 attacks(5 if hes frenzied) for every wound caused he does two(works on multi wound models only) and infinite hatred(re rolls all attacks in every combat). I cast Savage beast of horos on him giving him 8 strength 8 attacks at WS 7 and put him in a unit of grave guard thinking he'd need the extra punch. i charge a engine of the gods ancient stegadon which happened to be his general and proceeded with my attacks, i hit with all 8 attacks hitting on 3's with the rerolls, wounded 7 times on the stegadon which resulted in 14 unsaved wounds then proceeded to smack on the skink priest with the 14 red fury attacks at strength 8 with rerolls and did 26 unsaved wounds to him, likely to say my opponent threw a fit and rage quit the game. i will continue to use konrad in every game i play whether or not i take a vamp with lore of beasts because he by him self will tear through any multi wound unit or model in the game except for a dragon, i still suggest lore of beasts tho to make him extra rediculous. he is worth his points two fold

not sure if this has been posted yet if so i am sorry.

 

[Chunky Von Waffles]

I believe it has been discussed many times that Konrad has the potential to spill A LOT of blood in any game :konrad:

No need to be sorry for bringing him up
,in my opinion, it doesn't hurt to still have some bragging rights in 8th edition.

 

[VvC]

What would be the best way to use him then? I'm really considering throwing him into my list, and I've practically sworn off special characters for fluff reasons. So he'll probably be *Vampire's Name* counts as Konrad... Would putting him in a bunker unit of 10 skellies/ghouls be the best? Because having him slow down a nasty, horded unit because of his stupidity just sucks o_o Would i get a re-roll because of the BSB perhaps?

 

[Chunky Von Waffles]

Units of 10 really aren't much...at all...
ESPECIALLY in 8th edition when large, solid, blocks of infantry are key.
Think a little larger now

Throw him in a unit of 20+ Grave Guard with GW to clean up his mess perhaps? Similar to what Forge did.
Nice blocks of Grave Guard would do especially well as a home for him or any other Hero/Lord for that matter, they're fairly cheap and extremely effective.

 

[VvC]

Units of 10 really aren't much...at all...
ESPECIALLY in 8th edition when large, solid, blocks of infantry are key.
Think a little larger now

Throw him in a unit of 20+ Grave Guard with GW to clean up his mess perhaps? Similar to what Forge did.
Nice blocks of Grave Guard would do especially well as a home for him or any other Hero/Lord for that matter, they're fairly cheap and extremely effective.

I was thinking about using hand weapons instead Gives the unit a little more backbone and resistance. Because believe me, they are almost impossible to kill.

I was going to run him in a unit of 40 GG with the BSB with Screaming Banner, the unit has Banner of the Barrows, and Konrad will just make it unstoppable... Minus a purple sun of course >.> but that's why I brought my dispell scroll.

 

[Forge]

my point was my target was dead before my GG even got to strike hahaha and well dead at that. any kind of cheap bunker unit will do he will win the entire combat for you if he has Savage Beast of Horros cast on him. lets do a little math here.

Assuming attacking rank and file 1 wound models

attacks = 3 base + 1 ECW + 3(SBoH) +/> 1 Frenzy = 7/8

WS 7

Hitting on 3's with re-rolls = 6-7 hits(dependent on frenzy)

Strength = 5 base + 3(SBoH) = 8

Wounding on 2's = 5-7 wounds (again dependent on frenzy)

Armor= -5 (i.e, 1+ armor goes to 6+ save)

Unsaved wounds(given the model is not a character with 1+ armor) = 5-7

Red Fury attacks = 5-7(lets meet in the middle and call it 6)

Red Fury Hits on 3+ with re-rolls = 5 hits

Red Fury Wounds on a 2+(strength 8 as before) = 4-5

Total Unsaved wounds ~ 9-13


This is where it gets gross

Assuming fighting against a unit of multi-wound creatures

attacks = 3 base + 1 ECW + 3(SBoH) +/> 1 Frenzy = 7/8

WS 7

Hitting on 3's with re-rolls = 6-7 hits(dependent on frenzy)

Strength = 5 base + 3(SBoH) = 8

Wounding on 2's = 5-7 wounds (again dependent on frenzy)

Armor= -5 (i.e, 1+ armor goes to 6+ save)

Unsaved wounds(given the model is not a character with 1+ armor) = 5-7

Sword of Woldenhof doubles wounds = 10-14

Red Fury attacks = 10-14(lets meet in the middle and call it 12)

Red Fury Hits on 3+ with re-rolls = 11 hits

Red Fury Wounds on a 2+(strength 8 as before) = 9-10

Total Unsaved wounds ~ 28-34

so as you can see the wounds drastically go up once you run into a multi wound unit and at Init 6 your most likely striking first.

Lets check him out without SBoH first taking the average warrior into account toughness 3 WS 3 and light armor HW+ shield

attacks = 3 base + 1 ECW +/> 1 Frenzy = 4/5

WS 7

Hitting on 3's with re-rolls ~ 4-5 hits(dependent on frenzy, also I dont feel like going into decimals way to late for me :zombie: so for the sake of simplicity ill round up)

Strength = 5 base = 5

Wounding on 2's ~ 4-5 wounds (again dependent on frenzy)

Armor + parry= -2 (i.e, 2+ armor goes to 5+ save) ~ 4 wounds

Unsaved wounds ~ 4

Red Fury attacks ~ 4

Red Fury Hits on 3+ with re-rolls = 3-4 hits

Red Fury Wounds on a 2+ ~ 3-4 wounds

Parry Save (lets say he gets one)

Total Unsaved wounds ~ 6-7 wounds

Now lets see what it could potentially do against a monster unit with T 5 with a 4+ save without SBoH because its getting late im going to assume he gets frenzy haha

attacks = 3 base + 1 ECW +/> 1 Frenzy = 5

WS 7

Hitting on 3's with re-rolls = 4-5 hits

Strength = 5 base = 5

Wounding on 4's = 2-3(lets say 3 give him the benefit of the doubt)

Armor= -2 (i.e, 4+ armor goes to 6+ save) = 2-3( again lets assume he gets 3 its more likely he gets 3 anyways)

Sword of Waldenhoff doubles wounds = 6

Unsaved wounds = 6

Red Fury attacks = 6

Red Fury Hits on 3+ with re-rolls = 5 hits

Red Fury Wounds on a 4+ = 3

Save 6+ = 2(afford to give the unit the benefit of the doubt once)

Sword of Waldenhoff

Total Unsaved wounds ~ 10

the rest of the unit strikes konrad and he probably dies T4 5 + armor against a most likely strength 5 model if not great weaponed with enough attacks to kill off his two wounds.


so in the long run big difference between 10 and 34 wounds ehh?


after doing this all again i will never not take a vamp with lore of beasts and Konrad as its to good to pass up he kills anything in his path by him self. put him in a bunker of skeletons and go for it.

 

[VvC]

Nice!! That's unbelievable!

And the Sword of Waldenhof's doubled wounds counts towards combat resolution, riiiiight? :lol:

 

[Forge]

Nice!! That's unbelievable!

And the Sword of Waldenhof's doubled wounds counts towards combat resolution, riiiiight? :lol:

hell yes they do!

 

[Onikaigo]

Thank you for the mathhammer! I always love reading that.

And yes, Konrad is a beatstick that's not afraid of anything, because he's just too insane to care. He'll charge any big beastie and laugh as he slices it down (With a little help. Mindrazor, Lore of Beasts, Standard or two...) and he becomes a near unstoppable force. He can slaughter entire ranks by himself, or he can take down beasties without issue....

if he's not stupid. Yes, with the BSB nearby in 8'th edition you get to reroll stupidity checks, since they're leadership checks. So it's good to stick a BSB nearby, but there's always a downside. He can't take a hit for anything. With only heavy armor, all he's got is a 5+ save, so he's pretty much a one shot wonder unless the unit he attaked is too dead to fight back.

then we just recruit them anyways, so it's all good.


But yes, Konrad is the -ONE- Named Character I've ever fielded, and ever intend to field for Vampires.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

Let me start by saying:

HELLS YES!!!

Last time I took Konrad I came up against my friend's Khemri Construct army,
Him and his unit of 20 ghouls charged a block of 8 Unshmpti- Konrad in one round killed 4 and 1/3 of the blighters (16 wounds in total!!!), before being crushed by return attacks, the unshampti then crumbled

Alltohugh I am yet to try this tactic- I may consider taking the Lore of Metal to boost Konrad+ his unit making them all durable.

+2 to saves anyone?, a 3+ save might actually help Konrad survive more than one combat phase..lol.

AND/OR +1 to hit and armour piercing anyone???

The Lore of metal is a nice Lore indeed

 

[Forge]

Let me start by saying:

HELLS YES!!!

Last time I took Konrad I came up against my friend's Khemri Construct army,
Him and his unit of 20 ghouls charged a block of 8 Unshmpti- Konrad in one round killed 4 and 1/3 of the blighters (16 wounds in total!!!), before being crushed by return attacks, the unshampti then crumbled

Alltohugh I am yet to try this tactic- I may consider taking the Lore of Metal to boost Konrad+ his unit making them all durable.

+2 to saves anyone?, a 3+ save might actually help Konrad survive more than one combat phase..lol.

AND/OR +1 to hit and armour piercing anyone???

The Lore of metal is a nice Lore indeed

the save boost sounds like a plan, but id personally still sick to the lore of beasts for him just because his attacks multiply his wounds done them selves then multiply again, and against a multi wound model they multiply multiply again then multiply then multiply again rediculousness, my plan is to only charge stuff im sure he and his unit can wipe in one round of combat.

 

[Gladius Rex]

Maybe i have always played Konrad wrong, but I was under the impression that if Konrad delt 7 hits and scored 7 wounds, the opponent then made 7 saves, not 14.

It is true that the unsaved wounds then became 2 a piece against multi wound bases, but since the description says that Konrad gets an extra attack per "unsaved wound" that he would thus only get 7 more Red Fury attacks... not 14.

Still a bad mofo no matter how you slice it and I have always loved to field Konrad, even though ive had mixed results with him.

Also, the OP said he had 4 attacks. I believe its actually 5.

3 on profile
+1 for Frenzy
+1 for off hand weapon (though off hand weapon has to be done seperate as it does not count for 2 wounds if unsaved by opponent, but does grant extra red fury attack still!)

am I wrong on this? Everyone else seems to be on the same page as the OP.

 

[Ophidicus]

Yes, 5 attacks whilst frenzied, but remember he's only frenzied half the time...

Unsaved wounds = wounds caused after saves (if any) have been taken, not number of armour saves failed. Hence Konrad actually gets to Red Fury attack models with a 5+ save

 

[Gladius Rex]

I understand that Konrad isnt always frenzied, but once he is in combat you no longer have to check for frenzy/stupidity and its hard to get him into combat while stupid, he barely moves.

most cases he is Frenzied in combat, just pointing it out to the OP.

the game shop i play in has always counted 'unsaved wounds" as save rolls that were failed.

doesnt stop me from fielding him.

 

[Forge]

what really gets me is how cheap he is, hes a combat vamp lord on steroids for 145 pts.

lets calculate in a vamp (considering he could take more then 50 points vamp powers) cost for what Konrad does

Vampire
Avatar of death (2 hand weapons)
red fury
infinite hatred
Beserk sword(represents frenzy)

=215 PTS

can even figure out what to base points on for the double wound thing and the additional weapon skill point so i wont.

3 on profile
+1 for Frenzy
+1 for off hand weapon (though off hand weapon has to be done seperate as it does not count for 2 wounds if unsaved by opponent, but does grant extra red fury attack still!)

am I wrong on this? Everyone else seems to be on the same page as the OP.

actually he doesnt have to do his attacks seperately as per the BRB ruling stating you cannot combine a magic weapon with a mundane weapon he always uses his magic sword, and then combined with the Konrad rule under the Sword of Waldenhof that states the extra attack still applies.

 

[Zanthor]

Indeed, I've actually considered replacing my lord combat lord with Konrad and saving a whopping 215 points.

Here's the lords kit;

Sword of Strife +2 attacks, Nightshroud, Potion of Strength, Infinite Hatred, Red Fury.

So he gets 6 attacks all the time, re-rolling hits, can have S8 for those pesky 1+ armor saves.

He's not quite as killy against things like Ogres, but should dish out even more kills against RnF and high save models.

But most importantly has 3 wounds instead 2, and the nightshroud will help him deal with big nasties like greater daemons.

 

[Forge]

I honestly believe a combat lord isn't needed, take Konrad and a caster lord with shadows or death and your good to go.

 

[Zanthor]

Tell that to the Keeper of Secrets....

 

[Forge]

Tell that to the Keeper of Secrets....

cast Van hels or the corpse cart ability on Konrads unit and that keeper will disappear

 

[Lord Skrolk]

He is the ultimate bad ass. Tis a shame that my one gaming partner doesn't allow special characters on account of them being overpowered of unbalanced, which I am slightly inclined to agree with. I live in South East London and have over 5000 points of Vc (unpainted admittedly!!!) and wondered if any of youse lot fancied a game London side as I just bought my own 8th ed rulebook. Cant believe this is the first warhammer rulebook I actually own? Especially since I've been playing for 23 years! :zombie:

 

[Wiggins]

Likewise, locally no one uses special characters, with good reason. We're too competetive, so every high elf army would end up being a Teclis army, and so on.

We'll only use the specials in battles of 4,000 points or more, which is where warhammer just goes crazy and unpredictable anyway.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

I disagree that he is overpowered- there are so many things outhere that can stop Konrad in his dead tracks.

Direct damage bumms him, as do things with ASF (especially assasins).

He's a very very awesome glass knife- a mad butcher, yes, but not an overpowered one

 

[Gladius Rex]

my game shop does allow named characters, but when making lists, both sides have to agree to allow or disallow them, so its sort of game to game basis.

So yes, 90% of the time, the HE army i play against the most, does in fact have Teclis or Tyrion. I typically toss in a named now and then, but honestly i have mixed results with them. Ive had more consistent luck making my own vamp heroes and lords.

 

[Bravo_10]

I think Konrad is best in larger point games where you can afford to babysit him with the lord. At only LD 6, he's almost guaranteed to succumb to his stupidity (which he will have 50% of the time). I tried him once in a 1000 point game and he was very hard to keep control of with no lords allowed. However, with the lord's solid LD 10 nearby, it's very unlikely that he will fail his test.

Frenzy also used to be a pain in the behind in 7th because he would charge whatever was nearby. Often this would involve him running away from his unit like the psychopath that he is (he could charge 12" compared to most infantry's 8"). I was just wondering if that was still a problem with the new edition because of the slightly more random charge distance. Will he still be susceptible to committing suicide by charging a random block of infantry?

 

[Ophidicus]

Remember you can pair him up with a Wight King for Ld9, a big help to keep him in line. The WK can take challenges while Konni decimates the supporting unit, a highly dangerous combination for relatively few points.

"Will he still be susceptible to committing suicide by charging a random block of infantry?"

As far as we can tell, yes, he has to declare charges within 18", so definitely best to keep him near a high LD model (ideally a Wight BSB if not Vampire Lord & BSB)