latest 2k list

[SpOOkY]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to post my latest army list up for your comment and crits. The basic idea is to bunker my Lord and Wight King in the GG unit. Necro either bunkers in skeleton unit or runs near by to help heals.

GG in obvious the hard hitter, skeleton is anvil with high SCR, ghoul units to flank, varghulf flank. Wraiths and Bats for hunting down/harassing any unit that they can get to easily.

Would love some comments! Thanks!

Lord

Vampire Lord
Red Fury
Dark Acolyte
Blood Drinker
Flayed Hauberk
Book of Arkhan
=385

Heroes 335

Necro
+2 spell
Specptre of Noirot
=110

Wight King
BSB
Drankehoff Banner
=225

Core = 577

25 Skeletons
Champ & SB
WarBanner
=241

20 Ghouls
x1 ghast
=168

20 Ghouls
x1 ghast
=168

Special - 376

22 Grave Guard - 264
+GW
Full Command
=316

3 Fell Bats = 60

Rare - 325

Varghulf - 175

3x Wraith - 150

TOTAL = 1998

 

[TMS]

Hi,

I really can't see much point with the Sceptre of Noirot these days, to tell you the truth. Note that all it does is increase the number of Zombies you create with Raise Dead (when creating entirely new units, in other words) and not with the Invocation, which would've made it a lot more useful if it actually did. I'd take if off your Necromancer and either give him a Dispel Scroll or invest it somewhere else. I reckon that a summoning power for your Lord could do some good~

Edit: Woo for 3,500 posts.

 

[Gladius Rex]

I am a little confused about your taking of Dark Acolyte. You seem to have a combat styled Lord with Red Fury, yet Dark Acolyte is a caster power that grants you a wizard level. It is more expensive to do so, but id just pay the 50 points to make him level 3 if you want him a lvl 3 wizard and spend those power points on other suitable combatish powers like Infinite Hatred or Walking Death.

Though I am curious why you feel the need for a lvl 3 caster at all.

 

[Arthander]

your lord could use the infinate hatred if you drop dark acolyte

 

[coeur]

The ghoul units seem too small as well. Since you dont have summon ghouls, 20 is their utter max, and i cant help but think they will come undone very quickly.

As others have als said, the lord seems confused. Sceptre is poop. Id not even take a necro. The drakenhoff is an oft used tactic as usual, but it might be a little easy to ignore that unit tbh... You've few enough other units they can kill.

Varghulfs suffer nowdasys, since they cannot break ranks and will lose to combat rez and fire. And the skeleton unit is tinnnnyyyyyy....

And what are the bats for?

Seems to me you have two sources of VDM< but only one unit its worth it to cast on, and a unit cannot be affected twice in one turn by VDM.... Also, since your other spells will be vampire (aka, not too dangerous), and you cannot raise beyond starting value, he could easily save all his DD for VDM.

 

[SpOOkY]

first off thanks for the replies, my thoughts behind the Vampire to have DA is to help with spell casting, I've run into many armies running level 4 mages and I seem to be out dueled in the magic phase 75% of the time, a level 3 mage I thought would help to offset that.

The sceptre of Noirot was to increase zombie meat shields on the board fast, if I could raise up a unit of 10 in the start very fast or even in dire needs, I thought it could be helpful tactically.

The bats I liked just for chasing down units and for war machine hunting, but honestly I have used them only once thus far and they had an unsuccessful outing.

The Ghouls I like at 20, mainly for maneuverability on the table, a horde unit is very difficult to move on the battlefield, but maybe run them 6x4 for 24 man ghoul units? Not sure...

I have thought about adding a 2nd thrall vampire to the list but not sure the best way to set him up. Magic Thralls don't seem to work well, so maybe a combat thrall and a magic lord?

Contemplating removing Bats from the list and maybe some skeletons and add a corpse cart in somewhere?

 

[coeur]

You realise a lord can be made a lvl 3 wizard without using dark acolyte right ... thats only to get him to lvl4.

Also you can run your ghouls in 20 if you fancy, but they WILL die. Nothing else to it. If you're playing anyone who knows warhammer, they will die. We die as per combat rez through crumbling, and 20 is the minimum size people take for elite units like swordmasters.... even high elf spearmen will be in units of 35+, so your ghuls will be hilarious thrashed.

Also you keep them small for ease of movement? I really do not understand that. I run two units of 30 (in 1k points) and have never had difficulty with manouvering.... A horde is a unit with 10 frontage. You dont have to run it like that.... i use 30, but its still 5 wide...

The thing is... you dont even have any zombies, and yet are taking the sceptre.... wtf? If you were running a huge zombie tarpit, then sure, id let it go... but you are keeping that just for the tiny (inconsequential) units of ghouls you will raise? Their movement is so small they will never catch someone who just ignores them and charges at you. You need 10 to break ranks in a rear charge, and thats AFTER the back rank has attacked the zombies. (who will be hit on 3's, killed on 3's by even the most BASIC of people.)

My caster thralls do fine tbh, never had any trouble with geting spells off, even with 21 spells and only 2d6 power dice, with my highest wizard being lvl 2... (and my opponents usually 4) you just need to know how to drain dispel dice and make his wizard fail a dispel.

If you ever want to fit skellies in. dont. There is only one reason you should be taking skeletons. You dont have ghoul models. Same price as ghouls, one less attack, not poisoned, less toughness, less initiative, less movement. Etc etc.... ONLY advantage is a standard... thats it.

Corpse cart? Eh try it.. i plaved VC vs VC the other day at 1k where he ran 2 and although it did have a few tricks to it, i was never the slightest bothered by them.... even when they charge they are str2, so needed 6's to even wound my ghouls or grave guard.

Have you ever considered spirit hosts? Ive had lots of fun with a small unit of 3... really messes up the enemy if you can get them in combat with a scary melee unit, like bulls or in my case, swordmasters. Slowly killed them while they could do nothing back.

 

[SpOOkY]

Well I do know you can upgrade a lord to lvl 3 without DA but it is also 20 points more

I do see your point with the 20 ghouls unit size, usually my intention is to use them as flankers so they wouldnt be taking complete ranks and ranks of attacks from said elf spearmen. I think I may try a unit of 30 and run them 6x5. Ease of movement because i last ran ghouls is a horde formation 10x3 and had a big problem getting them around the table and getting them all into combat at once.

I am limited in my ghouls models which is the big reason why i run skeletons. I dont mind skeletons all that much, I just use them more so as SCR tactic where they get a SB with warbanner + ranks to get an auto +5 to CR. I dont really expect them to get any kills, just to hold up a unit really and hopefully break them. Ghouls vs. skeletons is honestly a whole other topic, they both have their advantages/disadvantages.

As for the zombies, Im not running a unit of them to start, which is why the sceptre comes into play, again I have never used the item so I thought i could give it a shot. I tend to feel zombies area waste to use as a core unit choice if I can just raise them up in game for free. Have you had any success running them as a core choice?

I think I want to fit in a thrall caster, but honestly un-sure how to kit him/her out. any suggestions on that side?

The only reason i was considering the corpse cart was to include the Bael fire and to help drain dispell dice via the Miasma of Deathly Vigor, def dont want to get it into combat.

As for spirit hosts, I havent tried them, I see them more so as a another anvil type unit, and I feel the VC already so many of these types that they wouldnt really make up their points, but again it always an option under the right circumstances.

 

[coeur]

A thrall i kit out with forb lore, summon ghouls and an item. Sometimes book of Arkhan, or Power scroll, or even a power stone or feedback scroll. I actually avoid armour on thralls in favour of utility. Alot of people will rather attack your men than the vamp, and if he is in danger u can challenge to a duel so he only has to fight one man. In the end, he is t4, ws6 and 3 wounds

I like to have one ethereal thing in my army as i feel some hammers out there just scare me. A unit of 12 bulls with great weapons will do such combat rez as to be ridiculous. Or that horde of 50x Chaos marauders with flails.... Swordmasters too Or a giant.

Slap them with spirit hosts and ignore them. I dont even use them as an anvil Just to tie up disgustingly hard units. If you want to play dirty, stick them in a building, especially if the mission is watchtower.... ouch.... Tbh id like to do that with ciarns and a banshee more, since she an scream in the shooting phase and all, but i dont have the models and our campaign is low pts atm, and i cant fit any more rares in... i am always 25% full lord. 25% full hero. 25% core.... leaves very little for the fun units.

 

[SpOOkY]

hmm I really like your tactics with the spirit hosts, I may have to use that next game... I have noticed my opponents really do HATE when I use Wraiths.... so spirit hosts might be something fun to play around with as well.

oh and btw thralls only get 2 wounds So you would prefer to run a Thrall caster lvl 1 vs a necro with 2 spells and an item? i use this mainly as a point cost argument, but it sounds more like you like to max out your hero point allocations vs using more troops....

 

[coeur]

Bah! Necromancers lol. I am a Vampiiirreeeee, plus GW necormancers look bizarre... I dunno, i just like vampires more, and i dislike lore of vamps so.... for VDM I use the book of arkhan.

Even as a lvl 1 my guys do okay. I like to take one with beasts and a power scroll and enchanted shield. 5+ armour, he can cast curse of anehaneor at long range at the start, then when they get into melee, open scroll transform. And who cares what armour i gave him? He is a t7 chimera with 10 wounds. For just like 180pts or so, i cant go wrong with that. Also having multiple vampires for me lets me throw single dice at IoN. The best thing there is that i throw one. If it works... its a challenge. Do they throw one dice? Knowing that if they fail the dispel 1-2 = instant dispel fail, and thus lose their lvl 4 dispel bonus? Or do they use 2 dice and waste one? Or let it go entirely?

As for spirit hosts, dont buy gw normal ones, they look awful and are £10 a pop. Instead by lotr undead guys from GW, I just bought some £17, you get enough to make about 7 monster bases full of 3 ghosts each. And they look better, with swords and shields. Only loss is that you need bases, but i just cut up a movement tray.

Nice painting tutorial in the invocation on this site as well, dont remember who did it, but i copied it and god was it easy, and they looked great.

I do max out my lord and Heroes. As someone on this forum once said "It's called Vampire Counts, not Random Undead."

Plus is like doing so, its a fun change from my skaven, who are grey seer, Bsb hero.... HORDES OF RATS. In the realm of 300+ in 1500pt games.

 

[SpOOkY]

haha, well I like the lore of beasts idea, nice little combo you got there. I think Im going to try out some thrall magic builds and see what works best for me.

The spirit hosts are a nice idea as well, except where can you fit them into an army build, they are quite expensive since you need to have a minimum of 3 to start a unit.... that's a pretty steep price, considering you can buy a wraith for 15 points less....

i may get the models in case I ever use winds of undeath though... not bad to have a few model lying around for it, but yes i agree 100% the GW models are booty, they r dam ugly.... def looking for a good conversion, thanks for the LoTR idea


Well, they are Vampire Counts, but I am still used to when they were the "Undead" way back in the day.... ahh how I miss Nagash...