• Roll-up! Roll-up! Come one and all the fantastic Turning the World to Darkness painting competition. Welcome to any skill level, you can find out more here.
  • It's time once again to ferret out those murderous vampires in a new VAU - Vampires Amongst Us. A cross between Cluedo and a roleplay, sometimes gory and often hilarious! Find out more here.

Legions of Nagash

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
Hello all, long time no see! (just found out my password for the site again, silly me)

Like all of you, I loved and didn't love so much all the changes on the Battletome, and would like to point out some stuff that I think wasn't covered before:

  • Black Knights got a HUGE buff, going from "meh-skeletons on a horse" to "Grave Guard with lances..." only on the charge
  • Black Axe Wight King gained one attack!.... and lost his D3 damage.
  • Zombies also changed in statlines, going from 6+ 6+ to 5+ 5+, with the changes mentioned before (they can still get 2+, 3+ like before)
  • I don't remember this one clearly, but Dire Wolves now cost the same as Zombies... same amount of wounds for better defensive stats, but not as offensive as zombies. Never thought I'd say this.
  • Blood Knights can no longer ressurrect, because of all the banner changes. They can still heal though, but once they're dead, they're gone.
  • All Etheral units can no longer benefit from modifiers. Not even from terrain which made them look like haunting a place as a theme. This is sad. Very sad. Instead, all but the new Knight of Shrouds gained the Frightful Touch and deal mortal wounds equal to ther weapon damage. Even the Wraith in the Black Coach. This is less sad.
  • In the narrative, Wight Kings are actually much more badass than in 8th Ed. Just pointing that out.
  • Just today, Monstrous Arcanum's Mourngul can now be included in a Legions of Nagash army as well. No need for alliances. The app marks him as such.
  • DEATH armies have changed the Blade of Summoning relic: instead of casting an auto-summoning spell, now it let's you set up a new unit with a variable Wounds characteristic. My question is: will this unit cost reinforcement points? I already believe it will, but... that seems like a huge waste of points, getting to summon 2 Grave Guard or, 2 Zombies. Could have it's uses if it cost no points.
  • Knight of Shrouds is tricky: he cannot (as far as I know) be included in a Legions of Nagash list, so he can't use all the sweet stuff from the Battletome. Even if both books came out at the same damn time, they didn't think of this. Instead, he can be included in a DEATH or NIGHTHAUNT list and enjoy all the command trait goodies. But still, I'm angry.
  • I say the above, because the Gravesites can only be used in a Legions of Nagash list, not a DEATH, nor DEATHRATTLE, SOULBLIGHT nor NIGHTHAUNT list. Those Gravesites are exactly the thing that would let us compete against shooting wall lists, summoning entire units in front of guns and charging them. This is annoying!
  • Finally, and outside the Battletome... Settra, I mean, Exalted generic Tomb King on super chariot can now be given a DEATH item and command trait... that, I like.
Let me know what you think of this!
 
Last edited:

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
True Blood
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
Hello all, long time no see! (just found out my password for the site again, silly me)

  • Finally, and outside the Battletome... Settra, I mean, Exalted generic Tomb King on super chariot can now be given a DEATH item and command trait... that, I like.
Let me know what you think of this!
I think most of that was already covered. As for your last point, ALL the TK characters (I.e.khalida, apophas) can now take relics and command traits. Even better, you can take 2 "Settras". That means you take two 18" buff bubbles. You could also make one unit fly 40" with the prayer.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
ooooooh! Yeah didn't think about that!

Has there been an errata update where it states that Mournguls are a part of LoN? because right now, all I'm seeing is his entry under a special Legions of Nagash faction on the app, but nowhere else.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
True Blood
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
ooooooh! Yeah didn't think about that!

Has there been an errata update where it states that Mournguls are a part of LoN? because right now, all I'm seeing is his entry under a special Legions of Nagash faction on the app, but nowhere else.
My app isn't showing that. You might try deleting the mourngul warscroll and downloading it again.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
Oh, I see. well I have it in Android and it is clearly unde "Legions of Nagash", not "Grand Host of Nagash" as it is with all the other units, but I guess we'll have to wait!
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
True Blood
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
Oh, I see. well I have it in Android and it is clearly unde "Legions of Nagash", not "Grand Host of Nagash" as it is with all the other units, but I guess we'll have to wait!
That's weird. I also have Android and Legions of Nagash isn't even an option. Can you upload a screenshot?
 
Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
283
I think most of that was already covered. As for your last point, ALL the TK characters (I.e.khalida, apophas) can now take relics and command traits. Even better, you can take 2 "Settras". That means you take two 18" buff bubbles. You could also make one unit fly 40" with the prayer.
You mentioned the TK characters including the chariot characters? :o I haven't seen any rules for them in either Malign Portents or Legions of Nagash, or am I just going blind? Is it possible to tell me where you found new rules for them? I would greatly appreciate being able to field my old TK stuff again
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
You mentioned the TK characters including the chariot characters? :o I haven't seen any rules for them in either Malign Portents or Legions of Nagash, or am I just going blind? Is it possible to tell me where you found new rules for them? I would greatly appreciate being able to field my old TK stuff again
Not in the Battletome, but as of the General's Handboo 2017 change where they have no named characters anymore. They can take any DEATH traits, just like any non-Legion army would
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,138
Hello all, long time no see! (just found out my password for the site again, silly me)

Like all of you, I loved and didn't love so much all the changes on the Battletome, and would like to point out some stuff that I think wasn't covered before:

  • Black Knights got a HUGE buff, going from "meh-skeletons on a horse" to "Grave Guard with lances..." only on the charge
Not really, imo. The thing that sets grave guard apart, as far as I'm concerned is their rend. Sure, black knights put a decent amount of rend - wounds on the charge, but that makes them more like mounted skeleton warriors in my mind. Really what they are is slightly cheaper skeleton chariots in that they're somewhat durable, somewhat fast units that can put out a bunch of wounds on the charge, but whos offense can't penetrate armor and evaporates after the charge.

Only, black knights aren't battleline, have less impact on the charge, and have dramatically worse recursion due to how units of multiwound models interact with Legion of Nagash healing effects. For the life of me, I can't see why Legions of Nagash healing doesn't work like oldhammer undead healing, but whatever.

Then again, black knights still get vanhels, and skeleton chariots are good enough that 'worse skeleton chariots' isn't the worst thing a unit xan be, especially since Legion armies aren't allowed to take chariots, anyway.

  • Black Axe Wight King gained one attack!.... and lost his D3 damage.
And his armor is much, much worse. All in all, I'd say both wight kings lost more than they gained, and neither is worth a penny over 80 points. Hopefully general's handbook 2018 discounts them hard.

  • I don't remember this one clearly, but Dire Wolves now cost the same as Zombies... same amount of wounds for better defensive stats, but not as offensive as zombies. Never thought I'd say this.
Dire wolves are nasty and fast tar pit battleline units. If not for the poor interaction with LoN healing, they'd be positively frightening. Still a very solid unit when maxed out.

  • Blood Knights can no longer ressurrect, because of all the banner changes. They can still heal though, but once they're dead, they're gone.
Blood knights have been hit with nerf after nerf. Hopefully they see a major points discount in gh18. Until then, I wouldn't use them outside of legion of blood lists, and even there they're decently offensive but vary fragile. Not like, say, Morghast Harbingers with halberds, which are good to begin with and become amazing in grand host or legion of night armies.

.....

Not going to quote the whole ethereal comment, but uts sad that what was their best command ability now does nothing.

  • In the narrative, Wight Kings are actually much more badass than in 8th Ed. Just pointing that out.
Shame their rules don't bare that out.

  • Just today, Monstrous Arcanum's Mourngul can now be included in a Legions of Nagash army as well. No need for alliances. The app marks him as such.
Nice.

  • DEATH armies have changed the Blade of Summoning relic: instead of casting an auto-summoning spell, now it let's you set up a new unit with a variable Wounds characteristic. My question is: will this unit cost reinforcement points? I already believe it will, but... that seems like a huge waste of points, getting to summon 2 Grave Guard or, 2 Zombies. Could have it's uses if it cost no points.
Barring errata to the contrary, it absolutely costs summoning points, and is 100% garbage in matched play.

  • Knight of Shrouds is tricky: he cannot (as far as I know) be included in a Legions of Nagash list, so he can't use all the sweet stuff from the Battletome. Even if both books came out at the same damn time, they didn't think of this. Instead, he can be included in a DEATH or NIGHTHAUNT list and enjoy all the command trait goodies. But still, I'm angry.
Malign portents rules specify that the harbingers can be taken as allies in any army if the same alliance, and that they can be the general if your army even though they are allies.

Unfortunately, afaict, that only applies to games using the malugn portents campaign rules, and even then they can't take artefacts or conmand traits when included as allies.

Outside of malign portents games, you're right, LoN armies don't get to take it. Then again, outside of malign portents games, the knight of shrouds isn't actually very good, so... *shrug*

  • I say the above, because the Gravesites can only be used in a Legions of Nagash list, not a DEATH, nor DEATHRATTLE, SOULBLIGHT nor NIGHTHAUNT list. Those Gravesites are exactly the thing that would let us compete against shooting wall lists, summoning entire units in front of guns and charging them. This is annoying!
Yeah, generic death units now lean very heavily on the gravesites, making it difficuly to justify other allegiances outside of dedicated nighthaunt, soulblight, flesh eater, or tomb kings armies, none of which honestly look even close to as effective as legion armies right now.

Legions of Nagash was supposed to expand gameplay options for death armies in age of sigmar, but in all honestly it feels like it obsoletes as many armies as it enables.

  • Finally, and outside the Battletome... Settra, I mean, Exalted generic Tomb King on super chariot can now be given a DEATH item and command trait... that, I like.
I mean, I guess? But none of the generic death traits or items are really any good, so... ?[/quote]
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
Generic DEATH traits and artifacts aren't all bad, I think. I'd love to get to use the Cursed Book in a Legions of Night army, and yet, it's not possible =(. Anyways, Cursed Book -> Tomb Blade -> Black Amulet are nice, I think.

as for the traits, I would have loved Settra with the former Red Fury. He'd be a beast! And yet, the current Red Fury isn't all that bad for Tomb Kings anyways.


Also, moving on, from the screenshot I provided with the Mourngul being under the tab "Legions of Nagash" the other day, my app (without any update, mind you) just took him off that category and deleted it completely. Odd, but maybe we'll get a FAQ/errata explaining
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
669
Guys, just a friendly reminder about IP policy from the forum rules:

copyrighted material:
no copying of GW copyrighted material. This includes direct quotes from any of GW's books or full statistic bars of models. Relevant information may be used in discussions, but it is assumed that all participants will have access to the official written source. Therefore it will not be necessary to publish such information in its entirety.
Some posts are getting close to the line, so please be careful about posting certain pieces of information, especially stat lines and rules descriptions from now on. Thank you.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
Guys, just a friendly reminder about IP policy from the forum rules:



Some posts are getting close to the line, so please be careful about posting certain pieces of information, especially stat lines and rules descriptions from now on. Thank you.
Oh! Yes, sorry about that!
 
Top