Lizardman EOTG how much it bothers you.
- Thread starter ChaosVC
- Start date
-
The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!
I've checked the rules for monstrous mounts and nowhere in the rulebook is stated that mounts with US5+ are not allowed to do this...
Check pages 58 to 61 for rules on monstrous mounts.
In regards to the EotG, I think the best chance to kill it is to use a wight king with the sword of kings to KB the priest. No more priest means no more EotG...
cheers,
Zonno
Check pages 58 to 61 for rules on monstrous mounts.
In regards to the EotG, I think the best chance to kill it is to use a wight king with the sword of kings to KB the priest. No more priest means no more EotG...
cheers,
Zonno
Sorry - huge brainfart there 
I should have said that whilst you can place the Stegadon in unit, it can still be picked out due to having a Unit S over 5
It's not really that good an option. Instead of having two units which have good US and thus can flank etc, you are combining them into large unit, which can not be very cumbersome, but more easily out flanked. But then I suppose it depends on your style of play, I personally am not overally fond of deathstar units.
I should have said that whilst you can place the Stegadon in unit, it can still be picked out due to having a Unit S over 5
It's not really that good an option. Instead of having two units which have good US and thus can flank etc, you are combining them into large unit, which can not be very cumbersome, but more easily out flanked. But then I suppose it depends on your style of play, I personally am not overally fond of deathstar units.
You don't even need a KB to kill the priest. Two Wounds and Toughness two isn't going to stand up to much...
The biggest advantage to placing the Steg in a unit would be rank bonuses and standards.... Could be a nasty unit... but very death star...
Problems with etherals is that the unit strength 10 is outnumbering and that leads to crumbling and outnumbering.
Gree said:
US 10 is tricky to outnumber with etherals, but that will only cost you 1 wound. It shouldn't be too hard to flank with Spirit Hosts to get 1 CR in your pocket to tie, then any wounds you do are gravy.
With wraiths, you should be able to do at least one wound/turn, negating the outnumber bonus.
With no attacks back, you should be able to hold your own for ages.
My main opponent is a lizard man player who uses engine of the gods, and my way of dealing with it is a fast moving vampire hero. I use a were bat, forbidden lore, with lore of beasts, talisman of lycni and flayed hauberk. He has a massive charge so he is well out of range of the engine effects and you can have him charge out of a unit to protect him from longer range magic. once you charge the stegadon challenge the skink priest, 6 strength 7 attacks are going to turn that priest into mush. with out the skink preist the engine doesn't work and you've removed a powerful spell caster as well. Thanks to overkill in the challenge you might win the combat
Red and Black's idea is perhaps not a bad one. Chances are your vamp might get squished by the Stegadon, but to be able to remove the EoTG in such a way is not a bad idea. Though I might rethink the setup of the vamp. Plus with the Skink dead the Stegadon will have to take a monster reaction test which could send it off the board anyway.
The best thing about a Wraith Unit vs a Steg is not the Wraiths, but the Banshee. With only a Ld of 6, any roll for the scream above 4 is a wound. For each wound you have two potentials to kills the Engine... either two wounds with a lucky 6 for distribution would kill the priest, or 6 wounds in total on the steg.
Either way - desent odds of killing it.
Either way - desent odds of killing it.
Steve_990 is absolutely correct: the banshee's scream worked for me. To be fair I got lucky, and rolled a double 6 for the banshee's scream, followed by nearly all the wounds hitting the stegadon, but it did turn out to be a very easy kill...
We did agree before the game, though, that the EoG wouldn't cause magical hits. We both felt that RAW has to take precedence even if it doesn't make huge amounts of sense. Had we agreed that the EoG would do magical damage I don't know if I'd have risked my banshee that close. I'd have gone for zombies to tarpit the stegadon, I think.
We did agree before the game, though, that the EoG wouldn't cause magical hits. We both felt that RAW has to take precedence even if it doesn't make huge amounts of sense. Had we agreed that the EoG would do magical damage I don't know if I'd have risked my banshee that close. I'd have gone for zombies to tarpit the stegadon, I think.
Not impressed with most tactics presented so far unfortunately*, they either tend to rely on your opponent agreeing that the Alignment is not magical (Why would you say it isn't by RAW? It's an attack in the magic phase- while nothing states it is magical, nor does the book bother to tell us if magic weapons give magic attacks. RAW has its limits, and common sense is sometimes required to fill in the gaps), or extremely good dice. Wraiths and Banshee are not a great choice, unless you have 5 or more in the unit, as the Priest will just challenge the Banshee every turn otherwise, and will be unlikely to take a wound. Scream it to death? Most likely LD9 if close to a Slann, and why wouldn't it be? I like the Forbidden Lore/ Bear's Anger idea but it basically involves you getting a spell past Lizardmen's formidable magic defences when using 2 casting dice- and a list WITHOUT a Slann should still have at least 6DD and 3 scrolls (unless your opponent is going easy on you). If you do kill the priest on top - which happens, it only takes a couple of bad rolls - then I'm not quite sure why a monster reaction test would ever send the Stegadon off the board either...
*Not meant as an affront to any poster here, it just goes to show that the tactics are very limited and do rely on good fortune, which is the hallmark of a poorly thought-out unit, like the Steam Tank, War Altar or Anvil of Doom. I'd like to try whacking the Priest with Black Knights, the enemy is likely to not try and stop you from getting close with them since it knows it can burninate them otherwise. However, a smart Lizardmen player will just protect his Engine with a small unit of skinks to the front, meaning that any attacking unit will only get to fight after it has first suffered a burning alignment...
*Not meant as an affront to any poster here, it just goes to show that the tactics are very limited and do rely on good fortune, which is the hallmark of a poorly thought-out unit, like the Steam Tank, War Altar or Anvil of Doom. I'd like to try whacking the Priest with Black Knights, the enemy is likely to not try and stop you from getting close with them since it knows it can burninate them otherwise. However, a smart Lizardmen player will just protect his Engine with a small unit of skinks to the front, meaning that any attacking unit will only get to fight after it has first suffered a burning alignment...
Keep in mind EvC, you don't have to charge in with the wraiths, you just need to be within 8" to scream. At least then the Engine would have to get at least an 8 on the burning alignment.
Keep in mind that the Steg is S6 with 3 attacks, so it has the ability to kill knights quite well. On the defensive it gives a 2+ save for the character riding (and crew) and 3+ on the steg itself. And the Steg is T6 with 5 wounds. I would say if you rely on the knights that Blood Knights are the better way to go due to the higher number of higher strength attacks if you wish to detroy it in 1 or 2 turns. Black Knights would only get 5 attacks (including Hell Knight) on the front and 7 on the side. So with them you would be relying on Killing Blow on the Skink Priest. Either way would work well against it.
I still think the Banshee is the better way to go, keeping the wraiths out of combat unless you are sure you can kill it with a charge (maybe if the steg only has a single wound left... but even then...). Better to tarpit with Zombies and scream it to death. Even with a Slaan nearby, you are wounding on 7+, which isn't bad odds for unsavable wounds.
Keep in mind that the Steg is S6 with 3 attacks, so it has the ability to kill knights quite well. On the defensive it gives a 2+ save for the character riding (and crew) and 3+ on the steg itself. And the Steg is T6 with 5 wounds. I would say if you rely on the knights that Blood Knights are the better way to go due to the higher number of higher strength attacks if you wish to detroy it in 1 or 2 turns. Black Knights would only get 5 attacks (including Hell Knight) on the front and 7 on the side. So with them you would be relying on Killing Blow on the Skink Priest. Either way would work well against it.
I still think the Banshee is the better way to go, keeping the wraiths out of combat unless you are sure you can kill it with a charge (maybe if the steg only has a single wound left... but even then...). Better to tarpit with Zombies and scream it to death. Even with a Slaan nearby, you are wounding on 7+, which isn't bad odds for unsavable wounds.
Oh, yeah, sure the Knights weren't meant as a proper solution either- more of a blind hope. Although 4 attacks on the Priest should hopefully do him in, depending on if you're playing one of those gits who always passes 5+ saves 
Blood Knights would work better of course, but scary times if the Engine is screened...
And remember if you're within 8" of the Engine to scream, it can move 6" and blast them. Although if you're smart you can keep it away. 8+ to wound it with a Slann nearby- I agree, tarpitting with zombies is probably the best way to deal with it.
Blood Knights would work better of course, but scary times if the Engine is screened...And remember if you're within 8" of the Engine to scream, it can move 6" and blast them. Although if you're smart you can keep it away. 8+ to wound it with a Slann nearby- I agree, tarpitting with zombies is probably the best way to deal with it.
I tend to agree that tar-piting it seems the best move.
I was trying to come up with a flying vampire that might have a decent chance of taking out the priest. I think you'd have to mount him on a helstead and use infinite hatered with the +1 attack sword, but even that is not certain to kill the priest in one round of combat. if you don't off the priest you'll almost certainly gone next turn due to the engines power going off plus wounds lost from CR!
I was trying to come up with a flying vampire that might have a decent chance of taking out the priest. I think you'd have to mount him on a helstead and use infinite hatered with the +1 attack sword, but even that is not certain to kill the priest in one round of combat. if you don't off the priest you'll almost certainly gone next turn due to the engines power going off plus wounds lost from CR!
Plus the Steg itself is rock hard. It could easily kill a Vampire or Lord, and we have to kit out to be a valid threat to the Steg itself. So any Vamp you throw into it will almost certainly go "POOF" in a round or two of combat... Skink Priest or not...
I agree, its risky, but I don't think the steg is too bad without the EOTG on its back. Its only getting 3 attacks every turn, hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s. A vampire ''might' hold up for a round or two and could still be a decent trade off to get rid of EOTG. You could rack up reasonable CR by attacking the skinks as well. It'll then allow your wraiths and banshee to start to threaten it.
Even after saying all that, I still think a shed load of Zombies is a better plan!
Even after saying all that, I still think a shed load of Zombies is a better plan!
So I played against Lizardmen last night with an Engine on the table. I sent my Banshee with 4 wraiths down after it. Ended up hiding in the woods. Lizzy player did the burning alignment, but I managed to keep out of range, in my turn I stayed within the woods but got roughly just within 8 inches. One scream killed the Steg outright, leaving a dazed Priest standing around with nothing to support him.
Was a good roll (10) with no Lizardman general around at 1500 points - all wounds hit the Steg, but I thought I'd post it here to show that it worked very well.
Was a good roll (10) with no Lizardman general around at 1500 points - all wounds hit the Steg, but I thought I'd post it here to show that it worked very well.
It's funny to me that two of my first three posts here are abou lizzies, but I suppose I have them on the brain right now. I'd be careful using Wraiths against the eotg. Even without its damage ability, there is still a lvl 2 or 3 Heavens wizard on board.
Nice one Steve, I remember in 6th edition games my Banshee would do amazing things against Lizardmen, usually vs Kroxigors are the ever-present Jaguar Saurus. Since those things are a bit more rare, it is good to have another high-return target for the big screams 
I have played against the EOTG twice and thus far, I have demolished it quite easily both times. In fact, the Lizardmen player is so disheartened by its failures that he'll probably never field it again.
Blood Knights w/ Strigos Banner eat the EOTG for breakfast. The charge range for a Stegadon is 12 inches...which is also the MAX distance that the laser can fire. Blood Knights charge 14. If you know your ranges, it shouldn't be a problem.
The first time I had three BK (champ included) in base to base with the EOTG and decided to allocate all the attacks against the Stegadon just for the heck of it. Even with five wounds and toughness 6, the Ancient can't stand up to 10 re-rollable strength 7 attacks. I didn't even have to roll for my mounts before the beast was dead.
The second time I issued the challenge to the skink priest with my Kastellan and once again, demolished the poor lizard. With the banner of Strigos, you should hit three, if not all four times....wound on 2's...and he'll only get a 6+ save. That equals a dead lizard.
Blood Knights with the Banner of Strigos is another way to go if you know your charge ranges.
Blood Knights w/ Strigos Banner eat the EOTG for breakfast. The charge range for a Stegadon is 12 inches...which is also the MAX distance that the laser can fire. Blood Knights charge 14. If you know your ranges, it shouldn't be a problem.
The first time I had three BK (champ included) in base to base with the EOTG and decided to allocate all the attacks against the Stegadon just for the heck of it. Even with five wounds and toughness 6, the Ancient can't stand up to 10 re-rollable strength 7 attacks. I didn't even have to roll for my mounts before the beast was dead.
The second time I issued the challenge to the skink priest with my Kastellan and once again, demolished the poor lizard. With the banner of Strigos, you should hit three, if not all four times....wound on 2's...and he'll only get a 6+ save. That equals a dead lizard.
Blood Knights with the Banner of Strigos is another way to go if you know your charge ranges.
Blood Knights doing what they do best
However I am surprised at your Lizzie player making it so easy for you to charge is EoTG. I would have had it screened by skink skirmishers.
However I am surprised at your Lizzie player making it so easy for you to charge is EoTG. I would have had it screened by skink skirmishers.
Heck, doesn't even need to be skirmishers (Although they can manage it and a whole lot more too)- just a simple cheap-as-chips 10-man ranked skink unit in front of the Engine will do it. You plough through them, and face a turn of Burning Alignment before you get to strike. Perhaps my opponents are of a slightly better calibur, but they were doing this kind of thing since day one that the army was released. Quite why your opponent was placing his Engine within 14" of Blood Knights with a straight charge is beyond me. Any idea what you'll do when your opponent works out these extremely simple and effective countertactics Nikkel?
It is a good point about using a screen in front of the EOTG. However, if you could get fell bats, lone vampire, or something similar into combat with EOTG stegadon, and then you hit the screening unit with blood knights, you could get a second round of combat with blood knights in the same turn.
This is, of course, assuming that your knights do over the skinks, which they almost certainly should, but you never know. Just need to remember to do combats in the right order!
This is, of course, assuming that your knights do over the skinks, which they almost certainly should, but you never know. Just need to remember to do combats in the right order!