Lizardmen help

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13ingo

Skeleton
Jun 14, 2012
70
Zombies
52
Hey guys, my friend was made to get rid of all his warhammer because of his wife which sucks, but he's now given them to me. He has a bit of a lizardmen army and I was thinking of giving them a go but I haven't the first clue how to build an army with them. I'll list what I've acquired and if you guys could give me a base to start with for a list that would be great!

2 x Batallions (40 Saurus warriors, 20 temple guard, 16 cold one riders, 24 skink skirmishers)

1 x Slann

1 x Saurus Oldblood

1 x Skink priest

1 x Bastiladon (unbuilt, was going to build it as a solar engine?)
 
Hi there 13ingo! How nice with an extra army eh? Good thing I'm also an avid LM player and would be happy to help you out.

What you have there is quite good to start out with! Do you want me to make a list for you with the models you have? And yes, you should definitely build the Basti with a Solar Engine.
 
Okay so I just whipped you up a quite nice list with the models you've got:

Slann: Wandering Deliberations, Harmonic Convergence, Soul of Stone, Channeling Staff

Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll
Scar-Veteran: BSB, Armour of Destiny, Great Weapon

36 Saurus Warriors: FC
12 Skirmishers
12 Skirmishers

Bastiladon: Solar Engine
8 Cold One Riders: FC, Spears
8 Cold One Riders: FC, Spears

Total points: 1997
 
Hey sun, thanks for the help! Just a couple of quick questions- Are the temple guard not worth taking? And if not, I assume I just run the slann with the warriors?

Also, what would my next step and/or purchase be to flesh it out to a 2400 list?
 
You're correct, the Temple Guard is not worth the paper they're written on if you ask me. I've playtested them several times and they never work in my experience. Some would disagree. Maybe this calls for a summoning of @Scalenex ?

The Slann can run with Sauri or alone, just keep him parked behind the saurus block and let him cast spells through the Skink Priest.

You can go in several directions from here.

1. If you want some big dinos you should grab two ancient stegadons.
2. You'll need another 20 Skinks or so to round out your core.
3. Converting some of those Cold Ones to Scar Vets on CO's (we call them cowboys) would be a good move.
4. Salamanders are always a good buy.
5. Terradons and Ripperdactyls are also really good.

For inspiration you can check my own tournament list here: https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/lizardmen-tournament-list-2500.27460/
 
Ok thanks, my worry is from all I've heard saurus lists arent that great and it's all about skinks.. Which is the opposite I prefer :/
How many 'cowboys' should I make/have? And is a second slann something to consider or one is enough?
 
Double Slann lists are not that good - their main problem is that you pour too many points into magic levels that have to fight for the same dice pool.

Two Cowboys should do well - kit them as follows:
Scar-Veteran: Armour of Destiny, GW, Cold One, BSB
Scar-Veteran: Stegadon Helm, GW, Cold One, Light Armour

I always run a block of Saurus, it is a solid anchor to build your army around. Going full Saurus is kind of a waste though. They can take a beating but they are NOT elite troops and will melt fast against other armies special and rare choices.
 
I saw the Scalenex signal and I am here. I disagree with what Sun King said. Temple Guard are not
mandatory but Temple Guard are very good, and most of Lustria-Online agrees with me. 20 is not enough in a 2500 point game. I normally go with 26-30 (I start with 26 then add my left over points as Temple Guard). If you are running something with lots of buffs like th Lore of Light or LIfe you can get away with fewer Temple Guard. If you take a Lore with no little or no buffs like Undeath, Fire, or Death you want a few more Temple Guard.

There are plenty of Lizardmen players that dislike regular Saurus Warriors a lot. I am not one of them, but you cannot win often with ONLY Saurus Warriors, 40 Saurus Warriors is plenty, you probably don't need to buy more unless you like grand armies.

There are four basic LM army builds: Traditional, Predatory, Skink Cloud, and Monster Mash. I like Traditional best. In a 2500 point Traditional army, I like to have two good sized infantry block, usually ~26 Temple Guard, and ~26 Saurus Warriors. You can also swap a block out for Skroxigor (Skink Cohorts with Kroxigor). If I run without Temple Guard I sometimes take two blocks of Saurus Warriors but I tend to do better with one Core block, one Temple Guard block. After buying your Core block, you'll want some Skink Skirmishers. Javelins and shields are slightly better than blowpipes in most games. I would suggest 2 x 10 as the bare minimum. I like 2 x 13 (13 Skinks need to lose four to generate a panic test). I typically round off my Core with a 20 strong Cohort. They become very powerful for their points cost when occupying a building. I am a minority on the Cohort love though, most LM players take three units of Skirmishers.

Next I would recommend a Scar Veteran cowboy. Unless you are likely to face ethereal troops, you almost can't go wrong with how you equip their magic items if you give them a great weapon. I like the Armor of Destiny best.

You got about 900-1000 points left to buy "electives" with. You get a few big dinosaurs, some Salamanders, a second Scar Veteran, Skink Priests to serve as Arcane Vassal, A Saurus character on foot to join your Temple Guard, a Skink Chief with the Egg of Quango, Chameleon Skinks or flyers to run interference and target war machine or even some Razordons. Basically whatever in the LM army book you like best.

I would advise not to take a Troglodon in a competitive army south of 3500 points. I would advise against taking Swarms in a competitive army of any size unless you know there will be lots of rivers. When taking big dinosaurs: Bastiladons, Stegadons, and/or Carnosaurs, I would advise you take 2+ or zero. One dinosaur is a cannon magnet. Two is target saturation. The Solar Engine is better than the Ark of Sotek for Bastiladons. It's not even close.

Kroxigor (not to be confused with Skroxigor) are great at killing big monsters and chariots but bad at everything else. Razordons are good if you are worried about fast cavalry and warbeasts killing your Skink Skirmishers and Salamanders and not much good at anything else unless boosted with Hand of Glory.

If you decide to run a solo Slann, I suggest taking a Saurus Scar Veteran BSB so the BSB can be closer to your main lines and your Slann doesn't auto-die if he breaks and flees. I also believe with a solo Slann a Skink Priest to serve as arcane vassal goes from useful to nigh mandatory.

Sun King is right, two Slann is a bad idea south of 3500 points. Perhaps not even then. If you want to go with two major casters, I suggest a Slann and Tetto'eko. If you run without a Slann at all, I recommend two Solar Engine Bastiladons and a couple Skink Priests (or just on SC Skink Priest). That's a lot of effective magic that takes relatively little power dice.
 
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Thanks Scalenex, a lot of handy info! Think I might try my first lizardmen match tomorrow. It's going to be weird having to decide on a charge reaction after only playing as undead..

Just briefly though, what does the predatory list entail? I'm assuming mostly saurus? [EDIT] Nevermind.. just saw the link you posted, thanks!

Are old bloods not worth taking over scar vet's at all?

I do love the carnosaur model, but is it any good in-game either by itself or as a mount? In particular, over the ancient stegadon?
 
I knew that Scaly would bring all the good stuff :) I'm not worried that Lustria Online disagrees with me on the Temple Guard, I have played them plenty of times now and they do not work in my meta/style of play. Other than that Scaly only speaks pure truth and is an all around awesome guy :)

Oldbloods can make sense but oftentimes you don't get enough bang for the buck when compared to a Scar-Vet. One build I like though is: Fencer's Blades and Glittering Scales... that makes for a pretty beefy combat character.

Regarding the Carnousaur... I played NUMEROUS games with VARIOUS lists running double Carnosaurs when I was preparing for the biggest tourney in denmark, and I feel adamant when I say: They suck. The reason is; poor Initiative and poor WS and the fact that they are EASY to kill by most enemy units. The model is lovely and cool... But if you want to play competively, do not take them. I even saw a guy who actually brought the dual Carno list to the tourny... and he was slaughtered in 5 out of 5 games.
 
Just a warning, Predatory lists have the lowest success rate in all comer's environments. The last tournament I was in, a predatory army got last place out of 12. New to WHF but still he was a smart guy and a veteran of 40K. I stomped him flat with a Traditional Army. I was able to use a small number of Skinks to tie up or pull away powerful units letting me concentrate forces on his Saurus blocks and Slann bunker piece by piece. Predatory armies dominate gun lines however.

Even with the 50% allowance on Lords, I don't like to exceed 25%. An Oldblood competes for points with the Slann. Points permitting I like to put an Oldblood on foot in my Temple Guard blocks to keep the Slann from being challenged. When I go Slann-less I usually take one or two Oldblood cowboys and max out their magic items. I like Oldbloods on foot better than Scar Veterans on foot. You can make some fancy magic item combos and Oldbloods get +1 to Scaly Skin versus Scar Veterans so they don't need the Cold One as much. I like Scar Veterans on Cold Ones better than Old Ones. You don't need the OB to get a 1+ Armor save and Scar Veterans can buy Cold Ones for 10 points cheaper than Oldbloods.

Fun fact, Oldbloods and Scar Veterans have the same Ld. When I run Slannless I usually go with an offensive oriented OB and a defensively oriented Scar Veteran cowboy. I make the Scar Veteran my general rather than the Oldblood. That makes the opponent make a hard choice being knocking down my offense or going for the general bonus points.

People seem to do very well or very poorly with dual Carnosaur lists. I would check out this link from L-O's Carnosaur savant, ZaGreekie. ZaGreekie uses large number of Rippers with his dual Carnosaus.. Norma lly the response to the dual Carnosaurs leaves the Rippers a clear field to savage vulnerable targets.
 
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So the tournament-winning lizardmen lists that I've seen in my meta (Pacific Northwest) all look something like this:

Slann
Channelling staff+channel on 3 dice, reroll failed miscast, store a die, loremaster high, MR(2) token, banner of discipline

Skink priest with scroll and/or Tetto'eko

Swarm of 6-10 units of 10 skinks

1 unit of ~20 saurus or templeguard

2-3 scarvet/oldblood cowboys

the rest in rippers or dinosaurs.


The scarvets/oldbloods/rippers are where the real damage potential comes from. The dinos are cool but they're a bit of a softer choice. If you do rippers then do 3 units of them so that you can put toad counters on everything.

The skink swarm is really key to the list, though. Lizardmen's greatest strength is controlling the movement phase and skinking off big threats. The skinks flee from charges and bounce back towards the Slann, where they rally on rerollable coldblooded LD10. The Slann then jumps into a unit that rallied while everything else pushes forward to do it again. He can channel his spells out through a priest in the front lines.

The saurus are really just there as a sort of anvil. Templeguard do the same thing. Put a scarvet/oldblood cowboy in there and they'll start doing work.
 

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