looking for basic vampire counts strategy

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I'm a huge math guy. It's what I do. So I'm happy to hear that. Also, this is what I own right now:

2 vampires
1 Isabella
1 Krell
1 Konrad
1 banshee
1 wight king
1 necromancer

100 Zombies (conservative estimate)
40 Skeletons
40 Ghouls
30 Dire wolves

2 corpse cart
15 black knights
10 grave guard
4 bat swarms
3 spirit hosts

1 Mortis engine
1 terrorgheist
2 vargulfs

I got a bit more to get. And will collect some random other stuff down the line like gg and blood knights. But that is later on. I also want to build and paint a coven throne.

Thanks guys! Great information all around. Love to see all the different and similar perspectives.
 
The top thing missing is 8 crypt horrors. That's one of our most reliable units. You need 3-4 varghiests to, though they aren't as universally useful as the crypt horrors. Getting yourself some Morghasts too, at least a unit of 3-4 archai and then time and money permitting 3-4 harbringers.

But make that crypt horror unit happen. Don't believe me, proxy it first and then see.
 
It's actually first on my list of things to get najo. And vsrgheists. But I am not sure what the archai and harbringers do. I hear good things but don't have access to their rules. And at $59 for two I kinda wanna know what they do so I can incorporate them in some lists.
 
They are LD 10, S&T 5, 3A, 4W, WS5. They hover, cause Terror, have Killing Blow. Harbringers have additional hand weapons and heavy armor. Archai have halberds and 4+ armor. Both units reduce crumble within 12" by 1.

Morghasts are expensive points wise, but they add a stability to our armies that other units don't have. They hit as hard as Varghiests, but are as tough as Crypt Horrors. They don't need the general to move around since they usually use hover. They can get into positions and hold points other units can't. The archai can punch through armor effectively, taking out armored units easily. The harbringers generate a lot of attacks and grind through most non-armored units. As monstrous infantry, they have stomps and since they aren't vampiric or ethereal, they are healed level+1 from Invocation of Nehek.

Their downside is that they are twice the cost of crypt horrors and varghiests, so they don't anvil like crypt horrors can and they can't do the glass hammer, free roaming shock troop role of the varghiests. They aren't as efficient as either, but in pound for pound they are something more too.

I use morghasts all the time and more and more. They are awesome and worth the investment. I personally own 4 harbringers and 4 archai and I find it hard not to field one of the units in some form in most armies I build now.
 
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320pts for a hard hitting, durable, and recursion unit us pretty amazing! I'll start with 4 as I love the models. But not sure if I wanna go paired weapons or halberds. And I dint wanna replace varghiests add I love those models too. Gonna have to make different lists. But start with one for now.
 
I'd start with the Archai. They give our army anti-armor that normally only our vampires can really do.
 
Same armour on them? Are they 4+ and the others only heavy amour? Or the others have a 2+? Because str 6 seems to be where it is at. Especially for cracking armour.
 
Oh I didn't know that. Rare slot is a tough spot for us. I would like to play the halberds because they seem superior in every way. Maybe I can squeeze them in.

Mortis 240
Terrorghiest 220
3 morghasts approx 240 assuming 80pts each.

Might have to drop that terrorgheist. At least at times.
 
Morghast Archai are much more consistent than a terrorgiest. They mitigated damage well. They aren't as vulnerable to cannons. They ignore most armor saves. The giest's scream is awesome, and screams are mathmatically more effective than having to hit and then wound, but it's so chancy. Archai heal better, block cannon balls, hit like a truck, are mobile, and they support the units around them better.

Now a terrorgiest running with a block of Archai running interference, that's pretty nasty.
 
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Oh I didn't know that. Rare slot is a tough spot for us. I would like to play the halberds because they seem superior in every way. Maybe I can squeeze them in.

Mortis 240
Terrorghiest 220
3 morghasts approx 240 assuming 80pts each.

Might have to drop that terrorgheist. At least at times.

They are a good decade higher than 80 for the rare version unfortunately. I also doubt you planned to use them as tbat cannon cover so your best drop probably would be the bat.

And if you are bringing the mortis engine for the regeneration and improved casting for healing then the -1 to crumble would do your army some good.
 
Might as well bring 4x Morghasts and 1x Terrorgheist!

Max out your Rares at 2400. At 2500 you can actually bring 5x Morghasts :)
 
I find 4 works best fit maximizing number of attacks against the majority of formations. Morghasts are awesome, but each one you take cuts your body count way down. Got to make sure not to over do it so the rest if the army has some meat on the bones.
 
They hit as hard as Varghiests, but are as tough as Crypt Horrors. They don't need the general to move around since they usually use hover. They can get into positions and hold points other units can't.
Morghasts are good flanker/counter unit, and there is quite big difference between them, and crypt horrors or vargheists. Not only points. Both argheists and crypt horrors are still usable - i can say, that all thouse units become more specialized in what they do. Reducing morghast to only mix of crypt horrors and vargheists is probably big mistake that will result in either leaving old units at home and demand from morghast to fulfill both roles of old units - and that is impossible.

Let me explain that:

Hardiness and staying power - i think that it is on par with crypt horrors, but static is more favourable to crypts - so they are still more reliable choice for big, immovable static monstrous unit. Crypts will get their rank bonus, and also they can disrupt enemy rank bonus if they hit on flank, so it have better static CR than morghasts/vargheists. Regen vs save....well, i think that regen is better cause it is not modyfied by strenght(and can be further boosted), and flammable combos are point demanding. And as you will definitely be have more crypts than morghasts, that means lots of W to deal with, so even if they loose and start crumbling - there is much more chance that the unit hold his ground.
So if you want some blocking/stopping power from monstrous infantry - crypt horrors are much better. Crypts have also one, situational advantage over Vargheist and Morghast - characters can join them, and they have champion to leave character playing with r&f.

Morghast do not hit as hard as vargheists - 2 vargheists is one Arcai, and it is almost trice attacks more on vargheists. Yes, on lower WS and S, but difference is quite small, and their damage output is about 50% higher than morghasts. Their drawback is that if they dont get flank, their T4 is usually not enough to protect CR that they casued by that higher damage output. But fortunately vargheists are more maneuvrable and much easier you can get some nasty flank charge comboed with some hard hitter. Vargheists are wampiric, so they can operate outside of general ld bubble and they can still march, allowing 20" movement deep into enemy zone. Frenzy is downside, but it is possible to moonwalk them in turn one, preventing unwanted charges and simply setup them for turn two combined charge - so they will not be forced to frenzy check since they will be charging anyway. Vargheists are good if you have some lone character that is making frontal charge and is supported by flank charge by vargheists, since they can have champion that is strong enough to kill any enemy champion, allowing that character to kill r&f. Vargheist are more suited for offence and much better support to fast or flying killer characters.As they dont have save, regen and have 4T naked, they are not suited for prolonged fights, and they should not be used as crypt horrors or morghast.

Morghast hoover is never doubled, so they have 10" naked, no matter if general is around. It is not sufficient for support of real flyers. And if they are within general LD bubble they are still faster if they are footslogging, but their movement is almost the same as crypt horrors(maneuvrability is higher, cause of skirmish). But they do not need speed of vargheists to do their job.
Morghasts are better suited for infantry heavy armies, for being much better counterstrike unit. High S, high T and ability to charge with hoover without troubles of being redirected means very nasty flanker. They can avoid unnecessary combats done with zombies and other blockers around, as they can freely deploy with their hoover behind that blockers. Their 12" reducing crumble is more suited for prolonged multi combats when we dont have to break enemy instantly, but we opting for absorbing enemy in our massed infantry and slowly murder them with blenders, morghasts and other killers. They also heal faster, and with W4 they can be longer at enemy flank, asset that can be better used close to IoN casting character - preferably 4lev blender. Morghast cause terror, so that can be difference when facing fear casuing enemy. They do not need champion, cause their ideal environement will be supporting combat of big, infantry unit that usually have own champion and is properly supported by characters.

So, morghast are not worse, or better. They have their role in the army - and knowing that most of us using lots of infantry - morghast are definitely worth some testing.
 
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@Asmodeus

I appreciate elaborating on my post, but I don't appreciate being taken out of context. The very post you quoted me from I said in the very next paragraph that morghasts can't replace crypt horrors as an anvil nor fullfill the glass hammer role of the varghiest. Because both units are basically half the cost of the morghasts, you get more anvil or hammer when you go with the crypt horrors or varghiest. They are more efficient at their role and this morghasts are something else entirely.

Any rate, thanks for understanding and no hard feelings.
 
Not intentional - sorry.

As i read in earlier posts - you playing aggresively with infantry - so Morghast will fit into your list, and i`m not surprised that you have some good experience with them. But if someone center his army around some big block of cavalry, or hard hitting flyer, Vargheists will be more optimal support.
 
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Thank you :)

Varghiests are valuable due to their speed and hard hitting attacks. They quickly create a threat on the enemy's flank in a way morghasts can't.

Morghasts harbingers have the same number of attacks at the same strength as varghiest. Archai hit at S6 though, giving us a unit that can punch through armor. If either unit were used in conjunction with a mounted vampire lord and his bus, you would run morghasts through your frontal formation and flank with the black knights.
 
For BK bus? Vargheists or hexies are my personal favourite. 6+ vargheists. More if you can afford it. Hexies if you have spare points. I need pure casualties on enemy to deal with their steadfast or horde of supporting attacks. The less ranks they have, or the less attacks they do in return - both things will pay off.

For 300 pts you have 3 Arcai that have 9S6 attacks and 3 stomps. Yes, KB is nice. Do you need it on soft, flanked r&f?
For 300 pts you have 6 Vargheists that have 22-25 S5 attacks and 3-6 stomps. Now we are talking.
 
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I'm not saying take morghasts in place of varghiest. The Archai don't have to flank with T5 and 4+ save and 4 wounds, they can intercept and pin something, then grind it out. They give us a way to kill armored units easier and control the board.

Varghiests can't do that with their T4, w3 and no save. Varghiests die to easily to hold units in place and armored units only lose 2 points of armor instead of 3. So that matters. Varghiests really have to flank to minimize attacks back. Morghasts just run up head first and then hold the enemy while they kill them and you keep the morghasts healed.

So they totally different.
 
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As of this morning I was just about to create a very similar thread, but thankfully I stumbled across this one.

Let me just say thank you for the very good information here, which helped motivate me again!

Vampire Counts sure can be hard on the novice player :/
 
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