Losing magic levels

[Talmon1]

If the general loses all of his magic levels down to zero does this make the army start to crumble?

 

[Yanda]

If the general loses all of his magic levels down to zero does this make the army start to crumble?

Good Question and im going to say no. If you break down the crumbling paragraph in the book it specifically talks about Slain Generals and passing on the torch to other spell casters. The General is not slain and therefore wouldnt trigger the passing on the torch rule to your next spell caster.

There is no evidence that would support the arguement that you would have to change generals because there no longer a caster. Infact you choose your general before deployment and that should never change.

 

[maxtoreador]

He should still be general and the book says when the general dies you start to crumble so no, however...

(Just playing devils advocate here)
Our book also says that the general MUST be a lore of vampires wizard, so one could argue that as his wizard Lvl is zero he is no longer eligible to be the general and yes they do start falling apart. I see a few of us running into the Greedy Fist and our opponents claiming the above argument. I don't agree with it but it would be the case in some people's perspective. :frown:

 

[Yanda]

as his wizard Lvl is zero he is no longer eligible to be the general and yes they do start falling apart. I see a few of us running into the Greedy Fist and our opponents claiming the above argument.

The army wouldnt fall apart, you would be able to transfer it over to another spellcaster, and if you only run 1 spellcaster in your list then you deserve it. Im not suprized OK players would do this as in general the people that play them seem kinda douchy.

We may be restricted by which Lore our General takes at the start of the game but there is no restriction in the book saying that if he losses his Caster Levels that he can no longer function as a general. So tell that OK player that he has ZERO material to defend his arguement.

 

[GhoulKing505]

If a wizard is lowered to lvl zero he still counts as a wizard. It's in the faq.

Q: If a Wizard has had his level reduced to 0 does he still counts
as a Wizard and can he still attempt to channel Power and Dispel
dice? (p28)
A: Yes.

Problem solved!

 

[maxtoreador]

We may be restricted by which Lore our General takes at the start of the game but there is no restriction in the book saying that if he losses his Caster Levels that he can no longer function as a general. So tell that OK player that he has ZERO material to defend his argument.

Oh I agree whole heartedly that the dropping the general to 0 lvls would have no effect on the army, other than the obvious drop in the magic phase. I'm simply saying as we have a restriction on who can be general in our armylist that is related to our magic lore then some of our more @-hole opponents will assume that de-castering (DeathFisting, Miscast forcing, etc) the general will remove his eligibility as general during the game. Better to bring a potential issue up now than scramble later to find the undeniable rebuttal latter when it's too late for someones game.

Also on a related side-note: If the general kicks, and there is another vamplore caster to take over does she become general?(for marching, insp presence, etc.) This came up in a game once for me, dwarven player(yes THAT dwarven player for those that have read my other posts) claimed that the magical control of the army transferred but since the book did not say she became general she didn't. Told him that I'd play that but if she died then I wouldn't crumble because she's not general and therefore her death won't trigger it, he backed down. Fully in the "she's general now" camp just wanted to interject that thought.

 

[Bishop]

I believe that a level 0 still counts as a wizard... So, your lvl 0 Vampire/Lord with Lore of Vampires is still the general.

Crumbling only occurs when he dies!

edit: There's the quote..

If a wizard is lowered to lvl zero he still counts as a wizard. It's in the faq.

Q: If a Wizard has had his level reduced to 0 does he still counts
as a Wizard and can he still attempt to channel Power and Dispel
dice? (p28)
A: Yes.

Problem solved!

 

[Talmon1]

Thx for the answer guys....

Max does bring up another good point about the back up caster, does that person become the general and allow march moves, inspiring precence ect?

 

[Demian]

I believe it doesn't.

All armies are only allowed 1 general (obvious). The crumbling paragraph states that if another friendly wizard with the lore of Vampires is still present, then the Leadership Crumble test must not be taken at the start of each subsequent friendly turn. Never does it say that such new wizard becomes the general.

general's death crumbling only happens once.

Afterwards, at the start of each subsequent turn, if there is a wizard (...) then such test must not be taken. Even an allied wizard with the Lore of Vampires could allow us to continue unscathed on the field!


Also, for the above reasons, enemies do not get +100pts for our Lord (general's death) and +100pts each time another of our wizards die. Douchey indeed if we bled that many points D:

 

[Tawg]

Oh I agree whole heartedly that the dropping the general to 0 lvls would have no effect on the army, other than the obvious drop in the magic phase. I'm simply saying as we have a restriction on who can be general in our armylist that is related to our magic lore then some of our more @-hole opponents will assume that de-castering (DeathFisting, Miscast forcing, etc) the general will remove his eligibility as general during the game. Better to bring a potential issue up now than scramble later to find the undeniable rebuttal latter when it's too late for someones game.

Also on a related side-note: If the general kicks, and there is another vamplore caster to take over does she become general?(for marching, insp presence, etc.) This came up in a game once for me, dwarven player(yes THAT dwarven player for those that have read my other posts) claimed that the magical control of the army transferred but since the book did not say she became general she didn't. Told him that I'd play that but if she died then I wouldn't crumble because she's not general and therefore her death won't trigger it, he backed down. Fully in the "she's general now" camp just wanted to interject that thought.

Yeah, as it was stated in the FAQ quoted, it's still a wizard of the lore of vampires, just a very poor wizard.

Also with the whole 'General bounce' thing; I'll go along and throw my lot in with Demian.

I believe it doesn't.

All armies are only allowed 1 general (obvious). The crumbling paragraph states that if another friendly wizard with the lore of Vampires is still present, then the Leadership Crumble test must not be taken at the start of each subsequent friendly turn. Never does it say that such new wizard becomes the general.

General's death crumbling only happens once.

Afterwards, at the start of each subsequent turn, if there is a wizard (...) then such test must not be taken. Even an allied wizard with the Lore of Vampires could allow us to continue unscathed on the field!

Also, for the above reasons, enemies do not get +100pts for our Lord (general's death) and +100pts each time another of our wizards die. Douchey indeed if we bled that many points D:

It would certainly make the most sense that the other Lore of Vampire casters in your army simply ease the dissipation of your army's (un)life force and make you not take the test, far more than you nominating a new general to rein in control. I'll say flat out that it doesn't work that way, but if an army did function like that? It'd be a fairly interesting concept (Maybe some sort of soul-jumping body snatcher tricks lol), not to mention the +100 per character death, if killed in the right order.. That would be quite crazy.