Legion of Nagash Magic Item Development - Armour
- Thread starter Disciple of Nagash
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Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Ok, so now we have:
Skeletal Carapace - 30pts
This armour slowly fuses to the wearers skin, imbuing them with tremendous resilience and granting the strength to resist attacks that would slay others in an instant.
The model wearing this armour may only ever suffer one wound per attack inflicted. For example the bearer can only ever suffer 1 wound from a cannonball. This also includes the Killing Blow rule - if a 6 to wound is rolled the bearer will only suffer one wound, however it will still cancel armour and regeneration saves.
Look good?
Skeletal Carapace - 30pts
This armour slowly fuses to the wearers skin, imbuing them with tremendous resilience and granting the strength to resist attacks that would slay others in an instant.
The model wearing this armour may only ever suffer one wound per attack inflicted. For example the bearer can only ever suffer 1 wound from a cannonball. This also includes the Killing Blow rule - if a 6 to wound is rolled the bearer will only suffer one wound, however it will still cancel armour and regeneration saves.
Look good?
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Hahaha. Actually I didn't know that either, but its always good to laugh at confusion 
On a serious note now, yes that seems very well balanced now, with it preventing the multiple wounds but still suffering the lack of armour saves. And anyway, what model would have regeneration that could get this?
EDIT: eeesh I just noticed DoN, you thought you could slip that mistake by and no one would notice didn't you XD:
On a serious note now, yes that seems very well balanced now, with it preventing the multiple wounds but still suffering the lack of armour saves. And anyway, what model would have regeneration that could get this?
EDIT: eeesh I just noticed DoN, you thought you could slip that mistake by and no one would notice didn't you XD:
Carapaces indeed. lol
I am thinking of a re-write for the Armour of Deathly Empowerment. I think it has so much potential that I think is being unused. I think we should make it more powerful, however its points costs will reflect this:
Armour of Deathly Empowerment - 100pts
The seemingly old and decrepid armour is more than it seems, for when its thirst for magic is slaked it makes the bearer unstoppable.
Light Armour that confers a 5+ ward. At the start of each Legion magic phase the can be fueled up by PD or a ritual from the bearer, or another Legion caster within 12"
For each expended PD / Ritual the the bearer may add +1 to either their S, T or A characteristics, upto the following maximums:
Strength: Unlimited
Toughness: 7
Attacks: max +3 attacks
Each dice also boosts the ward save by +1 upto a maximum of a 2+ ward save. The armour resets at the start of each Legion magic phase.
So what do we think? I feel it is very powerful, but for 100pts it is fair, especially considering the downsides of using up the PD or Rituals.
Armour of Deathly Empowerment - 100pts
The seemingly old and decrepid armour is more than it seems, for when its thirst for magic is slaked it makes the bearer unstoppable.
Light Armour that confers a 5+ ward. At the start of each Legion magic phase the can be fueled up by PD or a ritual from the bearer, or another Legion caster within 12"
For each expended PD / Ritual the the bearer may add +1 to either their S, T or A characteristics, upto the following maximums:
Strength: Unlimited
Toughness: 7
Attacks: max +3 attacks
Each dice also boosts the ward save by +1 upto a maximum of a 2+ ward save. The armour resets at the start of each Legion magic phase.
So what do we think? I feel it is very powerful, but for 100pts it is fair, especially considering the downsides of using up the PD or Rituals.
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Wait wait wait... Your telling me that a suit of armour can make you stonger almost indefinately, but can only make you so much tougher!? I like the idea and all the rules, but that bit seems rather skewed in my opinion.
I can see your point, and whilst I would love to stick to fluff, any higher toughness would be a Dreadlord would be at T8. That would make him far too tough. These items have to work with the rules, as well as the fluff.
I think the strength cap should be 10, I believe that no stat can be >10 as it is (other than movement and possibly attacks), although I may be wrong....
And perhaps the ward save max should be changed to a 3+? 2+ sounds a bit OP to me....
And perhaps the ward save max should be changed to a 3+? 2+ sounds a bit OP to me....
By unlimited I did mean max S10, sorry it that was unclear. I was undecided on the ward save as well, but then I thought if the armour is 100pts..........
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
I think we should keep it as is; stuff that takes up all or almost all of your magic allowance is never taken essentially. Witness the Chaos Daemonsword: 75pts for +D6 attacks and +D3 strength, and the Executioner's Axe: 85pts for double S to their T and D3 wounds. Neither of these are taken, because they deny you the synergy inherent in magic item lists. The Disciple is the only person who can power that up reasonably, and using all of the magic phase of your Lord-level caster in order to make him about equivalent to a Dread Lord doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
I'd take the 65pts one and the Draining Voulge and call it a day, and wouldn't touch this one.
And also: 2+ ward. No. Not. Ever. You could make your Disciple completely invulnerable with this only using 3pd/rituals by increasing his T to 7 and then having a 2+ ward. No non-special character should ever have a standard ward save better than 4+.
I'd take the 65pts one and the Draining Voulge and call it a day, and wouldn't touch this one.
And also: 2+ ward. No. Not. Ever. You could make your Disciple completely invulnerable with this only using 3pd/rituals by increasing his T to 7 and then having a 2+ ward. No non-special character should ever have a standard ward save better than 4+.
Ok, fair enough I can see your point. We will leave the Armour of Deathly Empowerment as it is.
Looking at the current list I'm quite happy with what we've got. I'm not sure if we need any other items?
Looking at the current list I'm quite happy with what we've got. I'm not sure if we need any other items?
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
I agree. Well we have the Launcher up for the vote at the moment, so we will have to wait until that finishes.
Disciple of Nagash said:
I'm concerned by the low point cost of this item. I understand that it will likely be put on a character that will be losing some sort of magical ability, however if you break it down it should cost WAY more.
Heavy Armour (6 to 25 pts) <- depending on hero/lord and army list
Magic Res (3) - (45 Points) <- Bretonnian - Holy Icon
Ignores ALL magic items [WOW] -- the Chaos Runeshield ignores all WEAPONS for 50 points.
This is probably an item that should be around the 100 ish point range.
But then you have to start taking into effect some other things:
No more magic items at all
Looses the chance to cast any Rituals or magic - maybe not a big deal for some armies, but a huge deal for this one.
Perhaps it may need a points increase, but I don't think it is worth 100pts
No more magic items at all
Looses the chance to cast any Rituals or magic - maybe not a big deal for some armies, but a huge deal for this one.
Perhaps it may need a points increase, but I don't think it is worth 100pts
But if you took it on the Dreadlord with To6 and Wo4 (which I also think is OTT), MR(3) and no magic items work on it... what on earth is going to stand a chance against that? (Other items/spells that it can't have/use hardly seems relevent at that point).
Maybe something along the lines of 80 pts might be fine.
Maybe something along the lines of 80 pts might be fine.
When the Dreadlord was put through there was no issue rasied by those who voted in regards to his T & W. He is an expensive Lord choice considering he is over 300pts, and is not even a caster. All he can do is use one ritual which even this item would negate.
When it comes to things that are already confirmed, the discussion on them is unfortunatley closed. I appreciate your opinion but we have to at some point stop discussion or we will not get anywhere. Same thing if you agree to all these items, they are voted through and then in 6 months some else says they don't like them.
Ok, so back on topic.
80pts I can understand. In fact looking at your reasoning I would agree with the change.
When it comes to things that are already confirmed, the discussion on them is unfortunatley closed. I appreciate your opinion but we have to at some point stop discussion or we will not get anywhere. Same thing if you agree to all these items, they are voted through and then in 6 months some else says they don't like them.
Ok, so back on topic.
80pts I can understand. In fact looking at your reasoning I would agree with the change.
Kaladas Harkon
Wight King
Well, the High Elves have the Null Stone which does the same thing within 6", and nullifies all magic being cast within the area. That's either 80 or 100pts (can't remember, haven't seen the book in ages). This provides Heavy Armour (a downside for the Dread Lord, who comes with Full Plate), only ignores magic items in BtB, makes the rest of the Magic Item list useless, and stops you from using Rituals/spells in order to keep your army going. I'd say that's worth 65pts.
I completely forgot about that Null Stone. It is a 100pt.
Both Kaladas and Bishop make good points. Upon consideration I would settle at 70pts.
Both Kaladas and Bishop make good points. Upon consideration I would settle at 70pts.
Any more comments on this. We need to settle it so we can confirm the final armour list. I think a change to 70pts would be fine.
Marcus Von Drac
Vampire Thrall
Hrrrmmm. Ok looking at that I would say 70pts is fine, as what Kaladas says about the disadvantages is all true, especially the making the rest of the items useless.
Personly I don't see why you would take this armor, a Revenant can't have it, neither can a Disiple of nagash (by the BRB you can't have magic armor unlesss you can have standard armor) and on a Dread Lord the lack of any magic items but this armor means you won't be doing much damage for 380 points. (I think it would be as useful as the accursed armor in th vc book +1T -3WS, -3I)