Legion of Nagash Magic Item Development - Talismans

[The Dark Lord Mr Fluffy]

I like Voltaire's idea, even the S6 part. Interesting choice... As a talisman, does that mean non mages can take it though? That T6 lord with a ward and the "evil no-magic self-harming crystal o' doom"

Should be around 40ish pts, most of a heros pts limit, and a chunk from a Lords allowance

 

[Kaladas Harkon]

I think it should be pointed out of the realm of Heroes; since the Undead units in the army still crumble due to General death it should be a riskier thing if you want to use this for large amounts of Scrolling. On a Hero, unless you're horrendously lucky on failing 2+ to wound rolls, you'll only essentially get 2 Dispel Scrolls and you'll lose your caster at the end of that. I'd just take two and be done with it at that point, as it'd be too much trouble to cast rituals on myself each time I used a scroll. Also, I can't see a Zenith Prince carrying one of these. Should be wizard-only.

That raises an interesting question: Will we have a specific Hierophant like in Tomb Kings? In Vampire Counts it never showed up because your Vampire will always be a Wizard, but in here you could have a Zenith Prince as your general, but since he isn't a Wizard it doesn't make sense for the Undead in the army to crumble if he dies. We could either have a General-Hierophant like in Tomb Kings (Dread Lord/Zenith Prince would be General, Whateveritscalled and DoN would be Hierophant, Undead would only crumble if Hierophant died) or we could just restrict it that only Wizards could be the Generals, and have normal VC crumbling.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I personally think that there is no reason why a Dreadlord or Zenith prince cannot be the armies leader. They may not have the magical power that the casters do, however they have an innate power of the dead

I would say only that the General must be Undead, and a model must be nominated before the game starts.

As for the item being over 50pts, I wouldn't take it. I would rather take 2 Dispel Scrolls instead and be happy with it.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Then make it 50 points. It's 2 'safe' scrolls or this baby for hero wizards then.

 

[Bishop]

If it's an item that non-"Wizards" can take, then the Str has to be high... otherwise the high Toughness characters will just shrug off it's wounds all day.

So, I'm okay with Str 6 if it's available to anyone... if you wanted it to be something that only a true "wizard" could take, then you'd be able to tone the Str down a bit.

At Str 6, on a Dreadlord you'd statistically get 8 Dispels off though... (50% wounding at 4 wounds... not including Ward Saves...). So, it'd have to be higher then 50 points, IMO.

Might be better to make it an "Arcane Item", so that only true wizards can take it...

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Can't do that as casters have to take a Book of Nagash, which is an Arcane Item.

I say we make it 50pts and leave it as it is.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Anymore comments before adding this one to the list:

Gem of the Supreme - 50pts
This magical gem is infused with the blood and souls of the mightiest warriors of Nagashizzar. The gem hates nothing more than magic and will stop most magic dead. The efforts required to do this take their toll on the gems bearer though, and the gem has had many owners through the ages...

This gem counts as a dispel scroll however every time it is used, the bearer suffers a S6 hit that ignores armour saves. The gem can be used multiple times in the same magic phase.

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Hmmm. I like the idea, but for isn't S6 a bit much. I mean, with that the only real character you would want it on would be the Dreadlord, and surely you want to be kittting him out for combat. Any other characters would get owned by it. Take into acount the ignoring armour saves as well. I would suggest S5 instead, but reading through what other perople have said im not sure.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I think S5 would be too little as a dreadlord would only be wounded 1/3 of the time (not taking wards into account) this would allow you to dispell nearly everything. But at str 6 I still don't think it will do much damage to a dread lord, but then it does take a big chunk of there magic items. But it could completly stop some magic phases which I think is a too OP.

I would go for 1 automatic wound per use that ignores armor saves but wards can still be taken and maby bring its points down a bit. (In the VC book the gem of lihmia is an auto wound (no save at all) for 1 powerdice which in my oppinion isn't as good as the effect of a scroll)

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Auto-wound does sound more realistic and in line with the original concept, now I've thought on it more.

 

[Marcus Von Drac]

Well fair enough. I personnally would never take that item, but I cannot find anything wrong with it rules-wise so I would vote yes in the poll, whenever that comes.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Thinking on I would be happy with the auto wound, providing regen / ward saves are allowed. Would we still price it at 50pts then?

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

Yes. With allowing regen/wards it means it is more likely that only Lord level characters are going to take it now.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I have added it to the first post. I decent collection of items I feel.

Does anyone think we should just have a basic 4+ ward priced at 55pts?

 

[Sweeney Todd]

The Gem of the Supreme looks fine to me. It's a viable alternative to your standard scroll caddy. I have another idea of my own, if we don't already have too many in the list:

Key to the Grey Vault - 50 pts(tentative)
One Use Only
This talisman bears the power to briefly tear through the veil between dimensions, allowing the user to take on the aspect of the restless denizens of the Grey Vault
This item is used at the beginning of any of your turns. Until the end of the turn in which this item is used, the bearer and any unit he is with gain the Ethereal special rule

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

No! there's already the option to have a 4+ ward in talismans and there's also one in armor, which I think is enough 4+ ward saves. Any more and all the characters in the army could have a 4+ ward. You could probably get away with putting a 5+ in or ammending one of the others to be 5+ then put this 4+ in.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Oooh, I really like Todd's idea. Priced fine for me as well.

@CRD - fair enough

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Just read Sweany's idea (posted while I was posting) I really like that idea. Might be worth making it 55 points so only lords could take, but then at 50 points it would take up all there allowence.

 

[Danceman]

I think you should add that you only can use the supercharged scroll item once per turn. Otherwise it can get silly and pretty much shut down your opponents magic phase, then heal the odd wound when it is your turn. Since you can take a ward/regen there is a good chance you actually will avoid any ill effects anyways... then being able to heal. Personally I think it should be autowound with no saves at all and lowered to 40pts. Without this the risk is just too small and the benefit too great.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Sorry but I disagree.

Firstly - "Since you can take a ward/regen there is a good chance you actually will avoid any ill effects anyways" - This item will take up a hero's full allowance so doesn't apply to them. Secondly, on a lord level character the cheap 4+ is a talisman, so can't be taken with this.. Other than that they are stuck with a 5+ ward (the Bronze Buckler won't work due to it being inflicted by a magic item). So there is a very good chance the bearer will be wounded.

Secondly - "then being able to heal" - This is no where near a certainty it is with VC. There are only two healing spells in the Legion, a Ritual and 12+ spell. Only DoN and Revenants can cast two Rituals per turn, anyone else who can cast can only cast 1. With the low range as well there are limited attempts at healing, plus choosing to heal means you loose the chance of moving the units by magic (something which could make a game) etc, it means that you cannot rely on getting a healing spell through.

Basically I think you are judging the item more based on a VC army rather than the Legion which has a much reduced ability to heal its characters & troops. I think the Gem of the Supreme should be left as it is.

I also think the Key to the Grey Vault should be added unless anyone has any objections?

 

[Danceman]

Ah, fair enough. Yes you are right, I did think you were going to keep the IoN as it is. It seems the role as devils advocate has taken me over, which isnt a bad thing I suppose. Just saying I am not trying to annoying or anything, just braineating and mindgnawing hehe.

Both items sounds good then. No objections.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I have no objections against the key to the grey vault

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Just one thing about the Key to the Grey Vault. I think it is a tad too expensive. I would say 40pts.

 

[Danceman]

Not so sure, against many armies this item will be the same as "this unit is invulnerable for an entire turn" while at the same time have to deal with a barrage of attacks back. It also will enable an entire unit to perform a very sneaky move, like for example march straight through a building, make a longer charge(due to not having to wheel around terrain for example). It is a very powerful item, potentially game-winning, even if one use.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I agree with danceman (for once) It is a very powerful item... much better then the hand of dust IMO which is 50pts. It is also automatic so your opponent couldn't stop it happening (I personly DO NOT want to make another bound item).