Magic Resistance and Terrorgheist

[Miklos Vak Vados]

Here is a new one. My skaven opponent just texted me saying that he should have gotten a ward save against the TG Scream since his unit had the lichebone pennant and a Sorcerer with the obsidian trinket giving his entire unit a 5+.

I texted him back and explained that statement would be true if the Death Shriek were a magical spell. As it is a special magical attack that occurs in the shooting phase the MR rule does not apply.

I told him by that logic I could put the same combo on my black knights and claim a 2+ WS for my VL and 5+ for the unit every time he shoots at the BK Bus with his Warpfire weapons.

Ive never really experimented with MR in my armies so Im just asking if I was right?

Texting about Warhammer at 900 CST, my wife just shook her head and asked if anyone at that gamestore had a real life.

 

[Blutsauger]

Here is a new one. My skaven opponent just texted me saying that he should have gotten a ward save against the TG Scream since his unit had the lichebone pennant and a Sorcerer with the obsidian trinket giving his entire unit a 5+.

I texted him back and explained that statement would be true if the Death Shriek were a magical spell. As it is a special magical attack that occurs in the shooting phase the MR rule does not apply.

I told him by that logic I could put the same combo on my black knights and claim a 2+ WS for my VL and 5+ for the unit every time he shoots at the BK Bus with his Warpfire weapons.

Ive never really experimented with MR in my armies so Im just asking if I was right?

Texting about Warhammer at 900 CST, my wife just shook her head and asked if anyone at that gamestore had a real life.

Yeah, you're right. It's a shooting attack that happens to be magical, like a runic cannonball or High Elf sisters of avelorn (or whatever they are).

 

[Miklos Vak Vados]

Here is a new one. My skaven opponent just texted me saying that he should have gotten a ward save against the TG Scream since his unit had the lichebone pennant and a Sorcerer with the obsidian trinket giving his entire unit a 5+.

I texted him back and explained that statement would be true if the Death Shriek were a magical spell. As it is a special magical attack that occurs in the shooting phase the MR rule does not apply.

I told him by that logic I could put the same combo on my black knights and claim a 2+ WS for my VL and 5+ for the unit every time he shoots at the BK Bus with his Warpfire weapons.

Ive never really experimented with MR in my armies so Im just asking if I was right?

Texting about Warhammer at 900 CST, my wife just shook her head and asked if anyone at that gamestore had a real life.

Yeah, you're right. It's a shooting attack that happens to be magical, like a runic cannonball or High Elf sisters of avelorn (or whatever they are).

Actually, its a magical attack that happens to take place during the shooting phase. That's important, because my skaven player would claim that the Ghiest would have to roll a 4+ or not be able to scream if he brings one of his skaven banners that affects BS / Shooting phase.

 

[bigbadbat]

MR specifically states against wounds from "spells"
You need to stop playing this guy, man.

 

[Blutsauger]

Actually, its a magical attack that happens to take place during the shooting phase. That's important, because my skaven player would claim that the Ghiest would have to roll a 4+ or not be able to scream if he brings one of his skaven banners that affects BS / Shooting phase.

Uh, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure it's a shooting attack.

 

[TinTip]

as far as anything that effect BS, tel him to check out the FAQ

Q: Do items or spells that affect missile fire have any affect on a
Banshee’s Ghostly Howl? (p31)
A: No.

 

[Nagashizzar]

Actually, its a magical attack that happens to take place during the shooting phase. That's important, because my skaven player would claim that the Ghiest would have to roll a 4+ or not be able to scream if he brings one of his skaven banners that affects BS / Shooting phase.

Uh, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure it's a shooting attack.

P.48 of our armybook: "A Death Shriek is a special attack that can be used against a single unit in the Shooting phase"

 

[Blutsauger]

Actually, its a magical attack that happens to take place during the shooting phase. That's important, because my skaven player would claim that the Ghiest would have to roll a 4+ or not be able to scream if he brings one of his skaven banners that affects BS / Shooting phase.

Uh, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure it's a shooting attack.

P.48 of our armybook: "A Death Shriek is a special attack that can be used against a single unit in the Shooting phase"

Sure. And in any instance where something affects a shooting attack, I would also expect it to affect a death shriek. Or a breath weapon, or a banshee's howl, etc. It's not a special category of attack, it just operates a bit specially in the way it interacts with it's target. It's still a shooting attack.

Like that Dark Elf item that gives a ward save against shooting attacks? Pretty sure he'd still get that save against a Death Shriek.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

No its not a shooting attack. Its a SPECIAL attack.

Breath weapons are specifically stated to be a shooting attack in rule book if i remember correctly.

Thats why it was faq'ed to rule out shooting ward saves working against it

 

[Blutsauger]

No its not a shooting attack. Its a SPECIAL attack.

Breath weapons are specifically stated to be a shooting attack in rule book if i remember correctly.

Thats why it was faq'ed to rule out shooting ward saves working against it

Where was that?

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Its been mentioned above about howls not affected by items that are based on missle fire above.

As far as breath weapons being stated as shooting attacks i dont have book with me to quote rule.

But nowhere in the death shriek does it state its a shooting attack so you cant gain shooting defense bonuses etc against none shooting attack.

 

[Blutsauger]

Its been mentioned above about howls not affected by items that are based on missle fire above.

Well, that actually refers to missile fire. So things that would reduce the strength of the attack, or make it re-roll to hit or something wouldn't affect it. But I'd be surprised if items that refer to shooting attacks don't work against it, like that DE cloak of starlight or whatever it is.

But nowhere in the death shriek does it state its a shooting attack so you cant gain shooting defense bonuses etc against none shooting attack.

Granted, but neither does it explicitly state in the rules for cannons or bolt throwers that they are shooting attacks. I mean, the rules for breath weapons state that it is also a 'special attack'. It later goes on to refer to a "breath weapon shooting attack" but I'd hardly say that's an actual definition so much as an easy way to refer to the mode of using a breath weapons special attack during the shooting phase.

To be honest, I couldn't imagine explaining to my opponent that a death shriek is a magic attack, but you don't get magic resistance, and it happens in the shooting phase but none of the rules pertaining to shooting work. I'm struggling to think of anything other than that starlight cloak that would be affected, but I can't imagine my opponent saying "I get a ward save against shooting attacks" and then me having to rules-lawyer up and explain how it's not really a shooting attack, it's just a ranged attack that happens to take place in the shooting phase.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

This is why if its an attack at range it should be only in the shooting phase and count as a shooting attack, with the only exception being magic being in the magic phase.

So simple but gw still cocked it up.

So alas. RAW means it isnt a shooting attack.

 

[Blutsauger]

So simple but gw still cocked it up.

Agreed. GW routinely manage to take simple things and complicate the hell out of them. My personal favourite is the ASF, ASL debacle. Why not simply give everything an initiative value?

 

[heldantes]

I just want to clarify:

1) someone posted an FAQ stating that howls (and I'd infer that the Gheist's shriek is the same) are not affected by items or spells (so Storm Banner does not affect it - though the Gheist wouldn't be able to fly of course).

2) The shriek is not a magical spell so MR does not apply to it? However, things like the Banner of the World Dragon which mentions protecting against anything magical (spells, attacks etc) would protect against the scream.

 

[Miklos Vak Vados]

I just want to clarify:

1) someone posted an FAQ stating that howls (and I'd infer that the Gheist's shriek is the same) are not affected by items or spells (so Storm Banner does not affect it - though the Gheist wouldn't be able to fly of course).

2) The shriek is not a magical spell so MR does not apply to it? However, things like the Banner of the World Dragon which mentions protecting against anything magical (spells, attacks etc) would protect against the scream.

Skaven Storm Banner wouldnt apply to the death shriek / ghostly howl since the banner only effects non-magical missile attacks. Since the DS / GH are magical and not a missile attack the best that the skaven player can hope for is the NO-FLy from the storm banner

 

[Sanguinus]

I am not sure why people are calling the T-bat's shriek magical. Nowhere in its description (or the FAQ) is it stated to be magical - it is merely a "special attack" that occurs in the shooting phase. A case could be made for the banshee's scream being magical since they are ethereal (though I'd argue it only applies to standard attacks), but even then that still wouldn't apply to the 'gheist.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

All screams are magical attacks.
No screams are shooting attacks.
No scream is effected by MR.
Pretty straightforward.

 

[Miklos Vak Vados]

I am not sure why people are calling the T-bat's shriek magical. Nowhere in its description (or the FAQ) is it stated to be magical - it is merely a "special attack" that occurs in the shooting phase. A case could be made for the banshee's scream being magical since they are ethereal (though I'd argue it only applies to standard attacks), but even then that still wouldn't apply to the 'gheist.

Page 31 Our army book - "Ghostly Howl are magical attacks"
Page 48 Our Army Book - "Death Shriek is a magical attack"

Even though it is a magical attack it is not a spell and would not qualify for Magical Resistance RAW.

 

[Sanguinus]

I stand corrected. Not sure how I glossed over those sentences.

 

[Miklos Vak Vados]

I stand corrected. Not sure how I glossed over those sentences.

Trust me. I glossed over it as well. It took our resident High Elf player to point it out to me after he learned of the "Banner of the Wolf Dragon" so now his swordmasters get 2+ WS vs. T'ghiest DS.

He was quite pleased with himself.

 

[Bloody Maria]

I stand corrected. Not sure how I glossed over those sentences.

Trust me. I glossed over it as well. It took our resident High Elf player to point it out to me after he learned of the "Banner of the Wolf Dragon" so now his swordmasters get 2+ WS vs. T'ghiest DS.

He was quite pleased with himself.

Doesn't that go for all High Elf players?

 

[Miklos Vak Vados]

I stand corrected. Not sure how I glossed over those sentences.

Trust me. I glossed over it as well. It took our resident High Elf player to point it out to me after he learned of the "Banner of the Wolf Dragon" so now his swordmasters get 2+ WS vs. T'ghiest DS.

He was quite pleased with himself.

Doesn't that go for all High Elf players?

As a matter of fact it does! And also extends to all likenesses of the pointy eared gits, high elves, dark elves, wood elves, Eldar, Dark Eldar, etc. etc.

 

[Powl]

Also, combining the Lichebone Pennant & Obsidian Trinket would still only give a 6+ ward against spells. You use the highest Magic Resistance, which is 1 in both cases.

 

[Thindol]

Srsly...you need to stop playing that skaven player.