Mannfred + Steal Soul + Crimson Gem of Lahmia

[adrift]

Since Mannfred (the elder) already starts out buffed in wounds, and can load up on arcane items, has anyone tried out (abused?) the mannfred + steal soul (death magic) + crimson gem combo to crank mannfred's wounds up (using steal soul), and then use the gem to convert those wounds to power dice, and then stealing more wounds and/or healing them using IoN, in a never ending cycle of increasing wounds/power-dice?

A less effective version of this same ploy is obviously just using the gem to generate power dice and healing the wounds with IoN.

Obviously you have to spend AT LEAST as many dice to recover the wounds as you get in power dice generated, but I can see getting a few turns with lots of extra dice, separated by intervals of recovery. If you throw in blood drinker (on a generic lord), obviously healing the wounds quickly becomes a lot easier. Actually, that sounds like another interesting avenue with the same goal...a lord with forbidden lore (death magic/steal soul), blood drinker and the crimson gem, maybe on a fast mover of some sort to get him stuck into combat quickly. You could end up with a lot of available power dice, but only have non-recastable Death magic to use. Still maybe not a bad thing, depending on what army you are playing against.

 

[Deadseed]

You can only cast Steal Soul once per turn, right? I know that's the rule, just some wishful thinking on the wording of the spell.

If you raise a Lord's wounds by say 3 over turns with Steal Soul, making him 6 wounds total, then sacrifice 5 wounds to the Crimson Gem to get 5 PD, if you then kill 5 models in the following combat phase with the Blood Drinker will it bring him up to 6 wounds, since that's what he started that turn with, or back up to only 3?

As far as using the Crimson Gem with Mannfred, I think it might be worth it depending on how you use him. Gaining the wounds back with Steal Soul isn't that good if you can only cast it once per turn, as it only heals him back 1 wound and you would probably want to use 3 dice to cast it, though it does slowly drain an enemy character.
Healing him back with IoN seems like a bad idea, since you're just using the dice you gain to heal him back and there's a chance of failing that (1/3 in fact).

Would another Vampire in his unit with a Blood Drinker actually heal him? The rules for it says it heals the owner or his unit...Mannfred would be in his unit, but I don't know.

I was thinking of something like Blood Drinker with Crimson Gem, but a lord can only sacrifice 2 wounds a turn without dying, and for the point cost might as well get the +2 PD power for the same effect without him having to get into combat.

 

[Ergo-Sum]

I haven't tried it, but it's certainly interesting. On Mannfred you have the advantage of still being able to take another decent item as well as his other kit. I think it would be very useful as you can hold on to the wounds, and turn them into dice when you really need them, especially as your opponent might not realise you have such an item and thus throw dispell dice at your assumed maximum power dice.

On the right turn with the right spells, it could be devistatingly effective, but it is a risky ploy! Definately worth having a play around with though.

I think it's less useful on a generic lord, because you can't get death and re-castable necromancy (IoN excepted) on the model genetating all these extra PD, and I'd be a bit worried getting down to one wound with a lord in combat. Even well protected lords could have a few bad rolls and it's all over!

 

[adrift]

The way I read Steal Soul is that the caster's base wounds is permanently increased, so blood drinker would restore the additional wounds, if lost.

There is an interesting question. Does blood drinker restore wounds to other characters in the unit? I dont think the FAQ covers it. On the surface of it, I would say yes, but someone might argue "bearer or unit" does not include opther characters in the unit.

 

[Deadseed]

I just read a post in another thread that states something that sounds logical, which is against the Blood Drinker healing wounds on another character.

Since it heals either the bearer or the unit he is with as if IoN had been cast on them it would not heal the second character, as if you cast IoN on the unit only they are effected, not the character in the unit.

It would have been a sweet combo though.

 

[Pulimuli]

I dont think the blood drinker can heal other characters, that would be a bit OP imo

 

[adrift]

I think the wording is far too muddy to be able to say for certain either way.

 

[Ophidicus]

A character in a unit becomes part of the unit, Blood Drinker may restore any model in the unit, hence no rules are broken if it restores another character in the same unit.

The restriction on casting IoN does not change the fact that the character is part of the unit, the spell is still cast 'at the unit' if it is cast on the character, it just affects a specific part of it.

 

[adrift]

My gut agrees with Ophidicus, although his (her?) avatar disturbs me. lol

 

[Jnr]

I think he would regain the lost wound but at a tournament I would ask a judge that question before it starts because it can be interpreted both ways.
Jnr