Mannfred the acolyte

[Mikael.K]

Im feeling an urge to try mannfred the acolyte sometime. I play mostly 1000-1500 points games. How effective would he be in games of these sizes? And what other characters would be needed in order to get the most out of him? What arcane item should one give him?

Generally, how to make him the most efficent? Would he be a good choice?

Let the discussions begin! :mrgreen:

 

[Mikael.K]

Also, would it worth it and mount him? I belive he could be good in a black knight unit with the banner of strigoi thingy, he could get most out of his magic sword and hopefully kill anything before they get to strike back. What do you guys reckon?

 

[Master of Shadows]

The item you would give him would depend on the rest of your list. If you have the points to spare then the Skull Staff would be nice. If your tight on points then I would think that The Black Periapt would be a good choice.

He would be ok in a unit, but it would have to be at least 6 black knights in the unit to help keep him safe from cannons and the lot( you need 5 rank and file models to use the "Look out Sir" rule, the champion does not count towards rank and file for these purposes, so you need to have at least 6).

The other problem is that once he joins the BK's they lose their Etheral Movement bonus and thats big, if you only have the one unit of them.

The banner of Strigoi will probably get you into more trouble then its worth. Due to the rules for Hatred you MUST persue your enemy if you win combat, its good because you will most likely run them down. However its bad because that can leave you stranded and you could wind up getting flanked and bye bye unit and Mannfred. If he is going to go into a unit then I would reccomend the Banner of the Undead Legion(I think thats what its called), so you can at least have double your unit strength, which should help you outnumber the enemy and autobreak them, and pursue if you think its safe to do so.

Mannfred comes into his own when you take him as a full blown Lord Choice. You should try him out at a larger point size.

Just my thoughts Mr. K

 

[mannfred]

Mannfred the Acolyte is brilliant for filling that magic gap in smaller games, I would give him the book of arkhan, I made a 1,000 pt army with him in it and am almost finished (nothing painted, I'm having difficulty finding time to just put them together).

Here's the link for the army if you are interested https://www.vampirecounts.net/showthread.php?tid=1488

 

[Mikael.K]

Manny is a bit vulnerable due to no armour. Would he be best of in a infantry unit of a cavalry unit? He is still very good, knowing all the spells from the lore of the vampires. He could be used more offensively while having another acolyte there to patch up any units that have been reduced in numbers.

The item you would give him would depend on the rest of your list. If you have the points to spare then the Skull Staff would be nice. If your tight on points then I would think that The Black Periapt would be a good choice.

I think the skull staff will be a bit expensive, on the count mannfred, the deffinetly. Book of arkhan or black periapt it is, most likely periapt in 1k games, to keep him cheap.

He would be ok in a unit, but it would have to be at least 6 black knights in the unit to help keep him safe from cannons and the lot( you need 5 rank and file models to use the "Look out Sir" rule, the champion does not count towards rank and file for these purposes, so you need to have at least 6).

Champions not counted as rank-and-file? That was something new to me. Do you have a rulebook reference perhaps?

The banner of Strigoi will probably get you into more trouble then its worth. Due to the rules for Hatred you MUST persue your enemy if you win combat, its good because you will most likely run them down. However its bad because that can leave you stranded and you could wind up getting flanked and bye bye unit and Mannfred.

One would have to be really careful on what to charge. Getting the enemy in the flank would be ideal, could potentially roll up that entire flank.

Too bad the acolyte manny doesnt have any of the lord of the dead/summon ghouls/creature of the night powers as the count manny has.

Mannfred the Acolyte is brilliant for filling that magic gap in smaller games, I would give him the book of arkhan, I made a 1,000 pt army with him in it and am almost finished (nothing painted, I'm having difficulty finding time to just put them together).

Have you had the chance to playtest him yet? Really curious about how good he is.[/quote]

 

[Mikael.K]

*bump*

 

[Master of Shadows]

I dont have my BRB with me, but if you check the table of contents in the back and look for "Look out Sir", you will find it.

I would be tempted to use him in a Ghoul bunker behind your main line. I dont really think he is going to hold his own in a fight like the Lord level Mannfred. Or keep him in a unit of Skeles or Grave Guard until the enemy starts to bear down on you and then move him out of harms way to keep him casting and using the Book(if you give it to him).

I personally have not used him just yet. I am planning to have the Lord Mannfred lead my army, once I get them all painted, LOL!!!

 

[Mikael.K]

Yes, one needs to be cautios with mannfred. If his up against ordinary rank and file, im pretty sure he´ll do fine, but I wouldnt let anything even slightly better get close to him.

Still not sure if im going to give him the book or arkhan or the black periapt, although my other vamp could have the periapt along with flayed hauberk, lord of the dead and dark acolyte.

 

[Master of Shadows]

Sorry about the delay but here is your BRB reference:

Pg 81 bottom of the page:
-Champions are treated as characters when their unit is hit by ranged attacks(e.g. they benefit from the "Look out Sir!" rule, etc)

The way I read this is because he is a character I dont think he would count as a rank and file model.

The look out sir rule says:
"If a character is part of a unit consisting of five or more rank and file models as is hit by such ranged attacks Roll a D6...."

So for look out sir, the vampire and the champion would count as characters and you wouldnt have 5 rank and file models. This is just how I read it, so I guess its up for debate.

Just check with the tournament/opponent.

 

[Mikael.K]

Well, champions arent characters per se, but follow certain rules for characters. But indeed, that is what the book says so...still it feels kinda weird that he wouldnt be a rank-and-file model, since he cant leave the unit as other characters can. Oh well.

If manny goes in a small unit, just skip the champ then :grin: or get a big unit with full command.

 

[Master of Shadows]

I know its weird, Im not sure how it works. But its the way I read it. In my 2k list I had to bump my Black Knights to 6 to compensate.

I hope someone else will read this thread and clear it up.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

...Or you could start a new thread about it in rules discussion.

Mannfred the Acolyte is an excellent general in smaller games and can easily be the sole Vampire in any game below 2k meaning you can have a 'vast' army. Personally I would use him to create an 'all your eggs' unit which could not be ignored.

Grave Guard
BSB w/ Warbanner
Banner of the +4 rank bonus
Mannfred

A static CR of 9 means the unit isn't going to be going anyplace in a hurry and Mannfred being equipped properly means the unit isn't going to dsie (his IoN will fix that) and their infantry movement will be fixed (Book of Arkhan would sort this, though Mannfred has the spell).

 

[mannfred]

Mannfred the Acolyte is an excellent general in smaller games and can easily be the sole Vampire in any game below 2k meaning you can have a 'vast' army. Personally I would use him to create an 'all your eggs' unit which could not be ignored.

I don't think he will make a suitable general with no save T4 and W2, he will get owned by assassins or just aggro units.

In my Army he is the second Character and my lord has some protection, if your general dies in a small game you can kiss your army goodbye.

 

[Grish]

Hey Voltaire, I don't see how you get 9...

+4 Ranks, +1 Outnumber, +1 BSB, +1 Warbanner, +1 Regular standard.
So its 8, if you have the outnumber isn't it? Unless your BSB has walking death...

Edit: Ah. Mannfred has Walking Death when he's an Acolyte.

 

[Mikael.K]

That is actually a pretty neat idea for a grave guard unit. How much would that be in points? Quite a lot I reckon. Please check out my manny army in the army list section.

About the champ, he is a rank-and-file memeber. "Remember that even if they have special rules, they are otherwise rank-and-file troopers in all respects" Page 80, second column from the top. Guess that settles it .

 

[Grish]

It's a ridiculous amount. 150 for the BSB (not counting other powers, just to be a BSB with warbanner on it)
~380 for 25 strong GG unit w. Full command and Banner of Endless Nightmare.

If you strap your Vampire with Walking Death, he will have no protection. T4, W2. So most likely you'd give him Dread Knight to give a 2+ save.

Most likely you're looking at 580 pts.

Skeletons can do it much cheaper. 245 for the same size unit, 445 altogether. But most likely you'd just IoN them up to 25.

 

[Mikael.K]

Yeah, my units will start of as 15 strong or so and then just IoN then up to fighting strenght. I have the banner of the dead legion on the main unit aswell. Mannfred also has the walking death bloodline power. But I will have to consider to change that banner for a warbanner, I should have outnumbering anyway, in that case my starting CR would be 6. Not too bad and not very expensive either .

 

[Mikael.K]

Ok, tried Mannfred the acolyte today and I must say that im pretty dissapointed in him. Sure, he has all the spells but really not the capacity to cast them. Didnt succeed in casting any of the high level spells during the course of the game. You need 4 dice to reliably getting over that 12+ limit.

His sword is pretty nice indeed, but he lacks the protection and should only go up against really low life rank-and-file troops so that he wont be taken out. I even miscast with him :grin:.

I dont think I will use him in the future, one can make better builds on ones own. Still cool to try him out, can be nice if you have a narrative story to go with the game or something.

 

[mannfred]

Ok, tried Mannfred the acolyte today and I must say that im pretty dissapointed in him. Sure, he has all the spells but really not the capacity to cast them. Didnt succeed in casting any of the high level spells during the course of the game. You need 4 dice to reliably getting over that 12+ limit.

There is no other hero level Vamp that can cast better than him. I don't think you should bother with those spells unless you have a Lord casting them.

You can give one hero Dark acolyte but they will be restricted to using whatever spells they generate, if you give one hero the +2 PD power then they will have the same restriction as above and only be able to use 2 PD to cast a spell.

Count Mannfred should be a different story.

 

[Mikael.K]

He would be great If he had the Lord of the dead bloodline power. I´d rather have that then walking death, a bit cheaper aswell. Guess I had some bad luck too :grin:. Be sure to let us know when you use Mannfred and how it goes. Maybe I just used him wrong.

 

[Guillius]

I've used him about three times. Won twice and lost once. However, the way I use him is to bunker him (basically losing the sword and walking death ability). He's a great caster knowing all spells and being able to have any arcane for cost.

I do have to make alterations based on him though (besides losing two of his strengths as mentioned earlier). I start with a bigger units (since I usually play him on a 1k game), my other vamp is a fighting vamp so no lord of the dead (at least currently), and my other hero in the 1ker is a necro to ensure another dance ( I don't feel safe unless I absolutely have at LEAST 2 dance spells but prefer 3 even if one is bound).

As Mikael said, I would think him much more powerful and obviously usefull if he had lord of the dead (how did he lose this walking death power when he became count and acquire LoD?, I mean he kept his sword...).

 

[Mikael.K]

It is indeed sad to neglect two of his stronger sider (walking death and the sword). What makes him powerful is that he has all the spells one would ever want or need . But that is good ideas you have there Guillus. Bigger units makes sure that one is not so dependent on IoN nor the lord of the dead power.

 

[mannfred]

He's still got his uses in CC (sword & walking death) but you need to be picky about your fights, I will never use him as a general as he has no protection and I assume opponents will target him, definitely bunker him unless your sure he can't get sniped (which in the new rules is very easy).

Mainly use him to cut down RnF, and don't forget that Gaze of Nagash is the only spell he can't cast while engaged in CC.

 

[Mikael.K]

That was exactly what I did. Actually, Mannfred was the last model to succumb in my army. Got wiped in my opponents last turn due to CR. Just that I used the wrong spells.

 

[adeadboy]

I have been mounting him on an abyssal terror and using him as a mobile artillary platform or for flank and rear charges. Never as the general. He is one the only hero level characters in the game that can have a monsterous mount. When he gets into combat he adds at least +2 CR ( + 3 Cr in the rear) and he negates rank. After you wound with the sword you have enough power dice to do anything you want. He draws so much attention from your opponent that he frees up the rest of your army to do what you need. I field him with the book of arkham