More Age of Sigmar Pondering on Rules, Rant-Man Commentary
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First of all I just want to say
AGE OF SUKMAR SUCKS!!
:ghost:
just joking though
No but seriously, you don't want a sweet hoodie? (I didn't even know they were making them, that's a.. well interesting).
But really, the no re-rolls thing is hilarious because it is super easy to fall for people just saying "Uh yeah it totally works like that" and just accept it. Funny stuff.
A lot of the stuff you mention seems fairly obvious, like sudden death. I would be super confused by anyone trying to "initiate" sudden death.
I am glad you aren't in the "DEAR GOD STOP SHOOTING" camp, I hate that mentality. Where people are trying to change the game based on plenty of reasons that aren't entirely rooted in the game itself.
I also agree about magic potentially, although I feel that "Death" is the biggest offender force, because they get quite a few bonuses that make summoning far too easy. The "bell curve makes it hard" to summon a Bloodthirster argument might be true, but summoning other things is far less so. I mean, I totally agree that you should be able to summon everything available, it just could be too easy at times and depending on the forces, it can be a little overwhelming.
I also find it funny when people mention trying to play RAW as possible, and you mentioned how you don't think there should be much interpretation of this "4-page-rule-book" and then have a segment devoted to the interpretation of model-count-wins.
However, as to what I think about that issue? That can't be correct, that the summoned unit simply goes straight into the "Dead pool" as a "trade off" for summoning them. The reason being that it vastly makes the higher-model count/units unreasonably less valuable. What you would create by this "interpretation" of the rule would be a negative conditioning to make players want not to summon. And that is, as far as I can tell, entirely against the precept of Age of Sigmar. Age of Sigmar is made to encourage whatever people find fun, and to be positive towards everything, but not to inflict needless penalties. Besides, it changes the valuation of summoning to make a "balance" change of valuing ONLY models with the highest kill potential per model, rendering other units that are "easy to summon" like skeletons entirely worthless. Regardless of what you suggest that "it is difficult" to summon units with 9-10 Summon-castings, no player is going to play into a weakness (Save for a few hail-mary type plays), so they will always have that Corpse Cart +1, and Morghast +1 summon, Mortis Engine +1, perhaps more with terrain or anything else. Making that 10+ summon for a Terrorgheist the average, and on a bell curve that means success. At that point, why not just sit back and summon "single models" that count towards your "Dead pool" but all together demolish opposing forces? Ok, so the "Summon buffs" become priority for opponents to stop, but how, if they are staring down 1 or more (With additional Death Wizards around) Terrorgheist dropping out of the sky per turn?
But the biggest problem becomes not that this is possible (Which is on it's own a problem, tbh, summoning is a bit too easy), but that if you interpret the rules as this Unleashed Wargaming you refer to suggests, it is strictly ENCOURAGED. Which is far and beyond poorer design than GW has already displayed of their own. I can't see that being how it should work. I agree with the way you've been playing, although that still values the "higher kill potential" models, such as a Terrorgheist, as long as you have models to set up. But what can you do then when a player has over a 50% chance to summon that Terrorgheist every turn? What if they own 4 of them? Summoning needs to be fixed, but that is hardly a solution. And you can't just say kill the buffs, because they are not always going to be easy enough to hit, and with the 18" summon/cast/dispel range, you could hide on the other side of a table and just "rain" units down on someone, even expensive/powerful ones with enough/the right buffs.
Maybe it's as you say, that it is not as much of an impact once you get to the board and implement it, but I would dare you to have a player stack their army to get the most out of summoning, and then say it isn't crazy stupid. And the worst part about the summoning is that it's so much more deceiving to the eye than even the rest of the game is to balance, because it is so much less immediate until it's already overwhelming to the point you clearly see it, so even if you simply try to "play fair" with your friends, summoning has to be played around, one way or the other. Either you are losing enough that it doesn't seem that bad, or you have to hold your hand on summoning great units because you're just going to inundate someone entirely.
AGE OF SUKMAR SUCKS!!
:ghost:
just joking though
No but seriously, you don't want a sweet hoodie? (I didn't even know they were making them, that's a.. well interesting).
But really, the no re-rolls thing is hilarious because it is super easy to fall for people just saying "Uh yeah it totally works like that" and just accept it. Funny stuff.
A lot of the stuff you mention seems fairly obvious, like sudden death. I would be super confused by anyone trying to "initiate" sudden death.
I am glad you aren't in the "DEAR GOD STOP SHOOTING" camp, I hate that mentality. Where people are trying to change the game based on plenty of reasons that aren't entirely rooted in the game itself.
I also agree about magic potentially, although I feel that "Death" is the biggest offender force, because they get quite a few bonuses that make summoning far too easy. The "bell curve makes it hard" to summon a Bloodthirster argument might be true, but summoning other things is far less so. I mean, I totally agree that you should be able to summon everything available, it just could be too easy at times and depending on the forces, it can be a little overwhelming.
I also find it funny when people mention trying to play RAW as possible, and you mentioned how you don't think there should be much interpretation of this "4-page-rule-book" and then have a segment devoted to the interpretation of model-count-wins.
However, as to what I think about that issue? That can't be correct, that the summoned unit simply goes straight into the "Dead pool" as a "trade off" for summoning them. The reason being that it vastly makes the higher-model count/units unreasonably less valuable. What you would create by this "interpretation" of the rule would be a negative conditioning to make players want not to summon. And that is, as far as I can tell, entirely against the precept of Age of Sigmar. Age of Sigmar is made to encourage whatever people find fun, and to be positive towards everything, but not to inflict needless penalties. Besides, it changes the valuation of summoning to make a "balance" change of valuing ONLY models with the highest kill potential per model, rendering other units that are "easy to summon" like skeletons entirely worthless. Regardless of what you suggest that "it is difficult" to summon units with 9-10 Summon-castings, no player is going to play into a weakness (Save for a few hail-mary type plays), so they will always have that Corpse Cart +1, and Morghast +1 summon, Mortis Engine +1, perhaps more with terrain or anything else. Making that 10+ summon for a Terrorgheist the average, and on a bell curve that means success. At that point, why not just sit back and summon "single models" that count towards your "Dead pool" but all together demolish opposing forces? Ok, so the "Summon buffs" become priority for opponents to stop, but how, if they are staring down 1 or more (With additional Death Wizards around) Terrorgheist dropping out of the sky per turn?
But the biggest problem becomes not that this is possible (Which is on it's own a problem, tbh, summoning is a bit too easy), but that if you interpret the rules as this Unleashed Wargaming you refer to suggests, it is strictly ENCOURAGED. Which is far and beyond poorer design than GW has already displayed of their own. I can't see that being how it should work. I agree with the way you've been playing, although that still values the "higher kill potential" models, such as a Terrorgheist, as long as you have models to set up. But what can you do then when a player has over a 50% chance to summon that Terrorgheist every turn? What if they own 4 of them? Summoning needs to be fixed, but that is hardly a solution. And you can't just say kill the buffs, because they are not always going to be easy enough to hit, and with the 18" summon/cast/dispel range, you could hide on the other side of a table and just "rain" units down on someone, even expensive/powerful ones with enough/the right buffs.
Maybe it's as you say, that it is not as much of an impact once you get to the board and implement it, but I would dare you to have a player stack their army to get the most out of summoning, and then say it isn't crazy stupid. And the worst part about the summoning is that it's so much more deceiving to the eye than even the rest of the game is to balance, because it is so much less immediate until it's already overwhelming to the point you clearly see it, so even if you simply try to "play fair" with your friends, summoning has to be played around, one way or the other. Either you are losing enough that it doesn't seem that bad, or you have to hold your hand on summoning great units because you're just going to inundate someone entirely.